Baron von Lotsov

Yes, their arguments look so stupid. Anyone can boo at someone on stage; even a five year old has that level of intellect. It struck me as something they cannot admit. I don't think any other party would have the balls to do that and besides they have to please their europhiles contingent. So obvious really, the question of whether we should decide for ourselves what we do in Britain, it should not even present and argument. They call it being sidelined. What does that mean exactly?

Anthony Butcher

You have to give him some credit for going into a meeting that he knew for certain would be exceedingly hostile.

I have no idea what the Lib Dems were thinking, unless it was to bring in a 'hate' figure to boo and hiss at so that the members would forget how unpopular some of their own leaders are...?

douglas denny

Do you not think it truly remarkable that AT LAST after 30 years of the EEC and EU political monstrosity affecting Britain, and all of the political leaders drooling over how wonderful the whole thing is, NOW one of the leaders of the main parties has actually come face to face with the reality of the situation and openly said on TV (as I have just now seen him in interview on 'Newsnight'):-

"I want the question addressed whether Britain should remain in the EU and the question put to the people in a referendum".

Remarkable. We are gettting somewhere at last.

The crisis averted until now for 30 years is approaching. It cannot be put off much longer as the Europeans are clearly determined to forge ahead with a new federal country and all that entails - Europe - and to forge ahead with their "constitution" to internationally legally ratify the whole process - and that this is incompatible with the wants of the British people.

Give Ming his due - he might be a fervent Europhile - but he knows what is ahead and that it cannot be put off for ever.
He is actually right - this "constitutional treaty" is important but it begs the question and leads on to the real issue - whether we should be in the EU or not.

Rejoice!

Douglas.
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Anthony Butcher

Are you sure that it isn't just a trick? It has two consequences:

1. It turns the current constitution argument into an in or out argument instead, which is much harder for eurosceptics and much easier for europhiles.

2. It causes havoc in the Conservative party. Imagine all those Tories who sympathise with UKIP seeing Nigel Farage at the Lib Dem conference defending a policy for a referendum from leader Menzies Campbell! How many of them are going to be thinking that Campbell is saying what Cameron should be saying? Most.

Independent UKIP

1. I disagree as the Lib Dems say the people of the UK are not competent to decide on that. There are 2 separate arguments going on now because of what Ming said.

2. I disagree as I would think most tories see Ming as playing pathetic politics as he knows the issue won't be voted on at any time in the next several years.

Disagreeing with both Butcher and Denny is a first for me I think!

Britannist

The europhile Liberal Dims - the most disliked party in the House of Commons - are not to be trusted.

Britannist

Sir Menzies Campbell was asked on BBC 2 Television Newsnight just over an hour ago if he is only calling for an EU membership referendum to cover for his mistake in not backing the 88% of the British people who rightly want a referendum on the EU 'Amending Treaty' (EU Constitution re-heated):

Leader of europhile Liberal Dim quizzed over his referendum views

Britannist

Some europhiles adopt the tactic of backing an EU membership referendum so that if the answer is 'Yes' to staying in the EU they can then say that we've had our say and they will then start drawing up the next EU 'Treaty' giving more powers to the EU (what remaining ones there are left to handover). There would, of course, be no referendum on future EU Treaties because the europhiles will say we had our say in the EU membership referendum.

These europhiles are totally dishonest. Europhile impostors in the BBC, Church, Unions, most political parties, the press and in other areas will suddenly emerge from out of the blue to try to frighten voters into thinking that the sky will fall in if we even think of leaving the EU.

What is needed is a referendum in which the option of "replacing UK membership of the EU with a trade-only agreement" is offered.

In a two-option 'in' or 'out' referendum on the EU, the europhiles will say (as they have done before) that millions of jobs will be lost if we quit the EU. The claim, is, of course, nonsense.

If voters are given the option of replacing EU membership with a trade-only agreement (between the UK and EU) I am confident it would get more votes in a referendum in the UK than any other option.

kernow

I notice not much feed back from the anti Nigel camp !

douglas denny

I do not think a leader of one of the main political parties of this country being asked direct questions in a programme specifically designed to probe his party's policies and his thinking as a leader, and his stating a radical proposition to such a question - on TV - is a "trick".

All the leaders of the main parties have been caught in a cleft stick with an incompatible situation: wanting to get Britain IN the EU as fast as they can - but the poeple don't want it. They are now for the first time being forced into the reality of facing a serious popular rebellion which might actually have to go to the people. They are in serious political trouble whatever they do. Ken Clarke and his ilk will be spitting blood over this possibility of a referendum which will undo all they have done in 30 years.

They know that if there is a referendum on the "constitutional treaty" it will fail with a no vote - which will scupper the desired constitutional amendments of what they want. The crucial thing is getting international recognition of the EU as a legal entity so that further "treaties" and amendments can be made without recourse to any further referenda involving votes of the people who cannot "be trusted".

Kieth Vaz also said recently and was reported in newspapers saying there should be a referendum on whether Britain remains in the EU to 'clear the air' over the issue - but I never expected the leader of a party to say so too on TV so directly.

It means that they know they are beaten on this issue of a referendum so they are trying desperately to divert (and avert) the issue onto something they think will be unthinkable to the people of Britain - a referendum on actually staying in or not. They are convinced the people undisputably want to stay IN.

What it demonstrates is just how far from reality these idiot politicians are from the thinking of the people - because if and when it does come to a referendum on staying in or out - and with the inevitable blowing wide-open of the whole debate on whether it is a good or bad thing to be in the EU I am fully confident that as Enoch Powell said - you can trust the people to make the right decision.

As for causing havoc in the Conservative Party - Good! They deserve it.

Douglas.
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