Leader of the UKIP accused of selling out - S.Times article.

BASILDON BOY · 27-05-2007, 10:46 AM

How far will Nigel Farage take UKIP for it to become the new Conservative Party?

He is filling UKIP full of tory rejects - and is now adopting tory policies on the EU!

harryaldridge · 27-05-2007, 11:02 AM

As i have said in previous postings regarding this declaration that UKIP signed, i do not see any problem. Quite the opposite.

It is no use refusing to recognise the authoirity of the EU, it DOES have authority even though we despise it. So when an opportunity arises which can advance the eurosceptic cause by supporting subsidiarity then i think UKIP has a responsibility to support it on the basis it reduces the power of the EU.

All i see from this declaration is that we have won more allies in the form of PIN and showed that UKIP will stannd up for Britain by supporting measures which increase subsidiarity.

I think the Times article is not helpful, but does at least make it clear why the declaration was supported - subsidiarity not offices!

If Roger Knapman had any sense at all he would keep quiet. He will have the opportunity to stand down as an MEP in 2009 and can then simmer quitely.

Richard Allen · 27-05-2007, 11:28 AM

Knapman looks like an increasinglty bitter old man who was a complete failure as a political leader and has no desire to see his successor suceed where he failed.

Populist Lee · 27-05-2007, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluemerle

There are over 500 small parties all fighting their corner. What is needed is an umbrella for them all to come and stand together. The problem is each and every one is led by a Leader with a huge ego, not prepared to give way on anything. What is needed is a charismatic Leader!!

People try to create umbrella organisations; but as you say some Egos get in the way.
NF is a Prime example.

Charismatic Leader?
Do you know of one, by any chance?

Populist Lee · 27-05-2007, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Constantine

I think this well sourced story is very damaging to the euro-sceptic cause. The UKIP leadership need to make very clear now that they are 100% against the EU and will re-dedicate themselves to fight against continuing membership of it every working day.

In the fight against the EU, the English Democrats will stand in the European Parliament elections in 2009 (it is odd, isn't it, how just about every nation and even supra-national institution has an English invented Parliament, but the English are not allowed one). But any English Democrat elected as an MEP will work every day for England and our democrcay. That is what they will be elected to do by the people of England, and not to take part in euro junketing.

Why aren't the UKIP MEPs spending all their energy, time and money to get the UK out of the EU? That is why they were voted there in the first place, wasn't it?

I typically refer to the political elites in this country as corrupt. To date, I have not intended this insult to cover the UKIP leadership. But I think they will need to show rather more integrity, spirit and ability in the fight against continued EU membership to prove that they really are patriots and democrats. (I should say here that I have always respected GB the MEP from London - these bad news stories I am glad to see never include him).

If UKIP's leadership have been compromised by being MEPs, I would welcome other members of UKIP moving to the English Democrats. You will not find the English Democrats on the gravy train. We may not be flush with cash, but I am confident that we will always have an intact reputation for serving England honourably.

There is of course a very good reason why the English Democrats will never be corrupted, while the unionist political elites always tend to be.

If you love your nation, you will never betray her. For English nationalists glory in the name of England.

In contrast, the UK is not a nation. I know that all too many British servicemen have died for the UK while serving in the armed forces: just as I know all too many of our political elites have betrayed the UK.

Does anyone really think that Blair, Campbell, Brown or Cameron love the UK? Would one of them be prepared to fight and to die for the UK? Nope: not one of them. So what should we call them? How about: ambitious, self-obsessed, egocentric timeservers just after wealth and fame, everyone of them.

Our political and media elites have failed us: we active citizens need to work together to clear the lot of them away.

But the basis of our appeal to our fellow citizens, of our beliefs and of our stength is that we work for England and not for ourselves. I would like to see the MEPs - elected by the people of England - now working for England, and not for the EU.

Do other members of this forum agree?

Andrew Constantine

If only you could stick to the Issue and not write a long-winded recruitment post . . .

We might pay attention to what you are trying to say.

I'll tell you this for nothing.
Come the day the EDs get MEP[s] and they will walk into the trap the UKIP MEPs have walked into.

Andrew Constantine · 27-05-2007, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stathan

No.

In fact I almost puked up over the pitiful terminology used in your post.

Stathan

I think your above post says quite a lot about you.

Turning away from Stathan, and to develop the argument about Unionist politics being corrupt, let me make some further points about the 5 largest unionist political parties in the UK:

Re Tories, Lib Dem and Labour

All hide the truth about the EU
All have major irregularities about their funding (cash for peerages etc)
All have worked to deny England fair treatment
All for party political reasons have policies that favour the other home nations at the expense of England
All are led by professional politicians who are light on real beliefs
All have more than their fair share of crooks (Archer, Aitkin) and shysters (Blair, Prescott)
All lie about the scale and effects of uncontrolled immigration.
All are guided by focus groups, and aim for the centre ground

Re UKIP

The Roger Knapman accusations seem well founded
UKIP MEPs when they get to Brussels seem to go native
The party has had too many financial irregularities
Too much in-fighting at the expense of fighting the EU.

Re BNP

I assume that I do not need to comment.

In summary

Interesting that none of the above parties speak for England. None seem a care a fig for the English nation.

Although all five of the Unionist parties have some poor/bad aspects, I accept that UKIP are the best of the five. But, overall, these unionist parties do not provide much of a choice for the electorate. I think the people of England deserve much better representation - don't you?

Andrew Constantine

Martin Harvey · 27-05-2007, 11:55 AM

Andrew Constantine wrote
'Our political and media elites have failed us: we active citizens need to work together to clear the lot of them away. '

That is correct, but you wont do it with the English Democrats, all the EDs do is to take some votes from UKIP which makes the LabCon lot happy. If the EDs really wanted to achieve proper Independent Democratic government of the UK by our own Parliament at Westminster, then they would join with the many loyal UKIP activists, instead of trying to entice the weaker UKIP members into their little fold.
Martin Harvey.

kernow · 27-05-2007, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluemerle

What is needed is a charismatic Leader!!

Who do You suggest?

Barboo · 27-05-2007, 01:18 PM

I can't find Daniel Foggo's article in my hard copy of the paper. Which page is it on?

Andrew Constantine · 27-05-2007, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Populist Lee

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Constantine

I think this well sourced story is very damaging to the euro-sceptic cause. The UKIP leadership need to make very clear now that they are 100% against the EU and will re-dedicate themselves to fight against continuing membership of it every working day.

In the fight against the EU, the English Democrats will stand in the European Parliament elections in 2009 (it is odd, isn't it, how just about every nation and even supra-national institution has an English invented Parliament, but the English are not allowed one). But any English Democrat elected as an MEP will work every day for England and our democrcay. That is what they will be elected to do by the people of England, and not to take part in euro junketing.

Why aren't the UKIP MEPs spending all their energy, time and money to get the UK out of the EU? That is why they were voted there in the first place, wasn't it?

I typically refer to the political elites in this country as corrupt. To date, I have not intended this insult to cover the UKIP leadership. But I think they will need to show rather more integrity, spirit and ability in the fight against continued EU membership to prove that they really are patriots and democrats. (I should say here that I have always respected GB the MEP from London - these bad news stories I am glad to see never include him).

If UKIP's leadership have been compromised by being MEPs, I would welcome other members of UKIP moving to the English Democrats. You will not find the English Democrats on the gravy train. We may not be flush with cash, but I am confident that we will always have an intact reputation for serving England honourably.

There is of course a very good reason why the English Democrats will never be corrupted, while the unionist political elites always tend to be.

If you love your nation, you will never betray her. For English nationalists glory in the name of England.

In contrast, the UK is not a nation. I know that all too many British servicemen have died for the UK while serving in the armed forces: just as I know all too many of our political elites have betrayed the UK.

Does anyone really think that Blair, Campbell, Brown or Cameron love the UK? Would one of them be prepared to fight and to die for the UK? Nope: not one of them. So what should we call them? How about: ambitious, self-obsessed, egocentric timeservers just after wealth and fame, everyone of them.

Our political and media elites have failed us: we active citizens need to work together to clear the lot of them away.

But the basis of our appeal to our fellow citizens, of our beliefs and of our stength is that we work for England and not for ourselves. I would like to see the MEPs - elected by the people of England - now working for England, and not for the EU.

Do other members of this forum agree?

Andrew Constantine

If only you could stick to the Issue and not write a long-winded recruitment post . . .

We might pay attention to what you are trying to say.

I'll tell you this for nothing.
Come the day the EDs get MEP[s] and they will walk into the trap the UKIP MEPs have walked into.

Populist Lee

Ouch! I accept that your comment about my recruitment efforts is not totally unfair.

But I am not giving time, effort and cash to my political activities just to be critical of other parties and spread feelings of despair and depression! I sincerely do see the policies put forward by the English Democrats as the best way forward. But we need more members to put them forward. I think about all those dis-satisfied UKIP members and would like to see their contributions to public life having better results.

As regards your last comment, I hope it is not true. The English Democrat National Council members that I know well are certainly not in it for the money. They too give freely of their time and energies to the party.

As for the big bribes on offer by the EU to make MEP's toe the line, I would prefer to see an English nationalist Executive take the nation out of the EU as soon as it took office. England with its huge trade deficit with the rest of the EU is in a very strong bargaining position and should use it fully.

Andrew Constantine

27-05-2007, 10:46 AM	#11 (permalink)
BASILDON BOY Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: N'Djamena, Chad Posts: 1,678	How far will Nigel Farage take UKIP for it to become the new Conservative Party? He is filling UKIP full of tory rejects - and is now adopting tory policies on the EU! __________________ Mike Nattrass MEP is HOT HOT HOT!!!

27-05-2007, 11:55 AM	#17 (permalink)
Martin Harvey Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: West Essex Posts: 160	Leader of the UKIP accused of selling out. S Times article. Andrew Constantine wrote 'Our political and media elites have failed us: we active citizens need to work together to clear the lot of them away. ' That is correct, but you wont do it with the English Democrats, all the EDs do is to take some votes from UKIP which makes the LabCon lot happy. If the EDs really wanted to achieve proper Independent Democratic government of the UK by our own Parliament at Westminster, then they would join with the many loyal UKIP activists, instead of trying to entice the weaker UKIP members into their little fold. Martin Harvey.

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27-05-2007, 11:02 AM	#12 (permalink)
harryaldridge Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: West Sussex Posts: 1,868	As i have said in previous postings regarding this declaration that UKIP signed, i do not see any problem. Quite the opposite. It is no use refusing to recognise the authoirity of the EU, it DOES have authority even though we despise it. So when an opportunity arises which can advance the eurosceptic cause by supporting subsidiarity then i think UKIP has a responsibility to support it on the basis it reduces the power of the EU. All i see from this declaration is that we have won more allies in the form of PIN and showed that UKIP will stannd up for Britain by supporting measures which increase subsidiarity. I think the Times article is not helpful, but does at least make it clear why the declaration was supported - subsidiarity not offices! If Roger Knapman had any sense at all he would keep quiet. He will have the opportunity to stand down as an MEP in 2009 and can then simmer quitely.

27-05-2007, 11:28 AM	#13 (permalink)
Richard Allen Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 504	Knapman looks like an increasinglty bitter old man who was a complete failure as a political leader and has no desire to see his successor suceed where he failed.

27-05-2007, 01:18 PM	#19 (permalink)
Barboo Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 280	I can't find Daniel Foggo's article in my hard copy of the paper. Which page is it on?