Reverse take over of UKIP on the cards?

Tom Wilde · 21-05-2007, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Populist Lee

>> ONLY UKIP are opposed to the EU <<

You can shout this as loudly as you wish.
And UKIP propagandists can fib it as often as they please.

Doesn't make it true.

The claim I've more usually seen from UKIP is NOT that "ONLY UKIP are opposed to the EU.", but instead that "UKIP are the only moderate, mainstream party opposed to the EU." In other words, it leaves out of consideration extremist parties of both the left and the right.

UKIP's claim briefly ceased to be true when Veritas came into existence, but is surely effectively true again now that Veritas can hold its annual conference in a telephone kiosk. Yes, I know - what about the English Democrats? They are certainly reasonably moderate, and reasonably eurosceptic, but I still can't find an unambiguous commitment from them to withdraw Britain from the EU.

Populist Lee · 21-05-2007, 01:49 PM

>> the only moderate, mainstream party <<

There you are.
It doesn't hurt to tell it as it is.

The Wooden Spoon · 21-05-2007, 03:32 PM

How dare you suggest that Veritas are a spent force!!!

Surely their 502 votes in the Mid & West Wales regional list vote (across 8 paliamentary constituencies), shows that they are clearly on the march.

I await with eagnerness, the day that they form a government, and Ian Sheldon gets the coverted "Minsiter for Dogs" job.

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

TonyG · 21-05-2007, 04:49 PM

Quote:

but is surely effectively true again now that Veritas can hold its annual conference in a telephone kiosk

I think you will find that Patrick Eston just surrounds himself with mirrors to make it look like there are other people in the room and talks loudly to himself.
No point in going to the kiosk if there's nobody there!

Andrew Constantine · 21-05-2007, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Independent UKIP

andypandy

My support for UKIP is conditional upon UKIP contesting all English and Welsh Euro areas in full. I might have tolerated something marginally different for Scotland but the other (non tory) Unionist parties got nowhere in 2007 so I also consider that UKIP has to contest the Scottish Euro elections with a full slate. There is no possiblity that the English Democrats will win any seats in 2009 so if they really believe in EU withdrawal as an overwhelming priority then they must stand aside in favour of UKIP and campaign for UKIP. Their English Independence campaign in opposition to the UKIP Unionist campaign can be a matter of democratic debates & elections after we leave the EU.

Others have already commented on this forum about the very respectable results that the English Democrats received in this month's local elections. We think we are on a roll and that there is a very good chance of the English Democrats winning a number of seats in the 2009 elections.

As regards the "English independence" debate you referred to, it is true that in a recent National Council meeting, one person - and only one person - argued for Independence, and he did not even get a seconder!

So the policy of the English Democrats in this area was, is and will remain that of a fairer constitutional settlement for England within the UK and for England to have its own Parliament with the same powers as the Scottish Parliament.

Apart from the above, your post was spot on!

Andrew Constantine

UKIP MAN · 21-05-2007, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 22ANDUK

UKIPMAN wrote:

Quote:

UKIP is here to do one thing, get into parliament as the Government and take the United kingdom out of the EU, If you dont agree with that as far as I am concerned you are a traitor to this country.

What? Sorry can you go over this again? Does it mean if someone does not support UKIP they are a traitor? Or if they don't support UK withdrawal from the EU then they are traitors?

what? sorry, where in that statement does it say support UKIP?

UKIP MAN · 21-05-2007, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Populist Lee

Quote:

Originally Posted by UKIP MAN

All the people that sit on the sidelines and slag UKIP off but agree with us coming out of the EU, disgust me.

And your opinion of those who do not sit on the sidelines is?

Its a statement about people that sit on the sidelines and slag UKIP off.

If I were to make a statement about people who do not sit on the sidelines then you would get my opinion.

If you are not on the sidelines it means you are doing something for the cause, does it not?

but there are those that say or make out they are doing something like signing the better off out and such like but still stay with a party that is for more commitment to the EU.

I dont see any other party that is saying they will take the UK out of the EU.

Independent UKIP · 22-05-2007, 12:39 AM

In reply to Andrew Constantine I guess, not surprisingly, you're not persuaded by my suggestion that you stand aside in favour of UKIP throughout England (& Monmouthshire?) in 2009. What about those regions (& I must be honest, I haven't checked out the reduced region figures for 2009) such as the North East where there is even in your wildest dreams no prospect of an English Democrat being elected to the European Parliament? I trust you will stand aside and endorse UKIP in that and any other comparable regions in 2009.

andypandy · 22-05-2007, 08:02 AM

Saying that the English Democrats can't win this or that in 2009, does not do them any justice. People are forgetting the potential impact of the media on this debate, and come 2 years hence, the promotion of this or that party will ultimately depend on:

1. Which popular media personality is thrust into the spotlight, and is then associated with which particular party;

2. What particular issues are current at that time, and thus giving additional boost to whichever party;

3. The previous 2 years experiences and successes/ failures on any given party.

As such, by February-March of that year, it should be by then quite aparent which party can reasonably expect to make a major impact on that election. Given UKIP's record in this area, I don't see Joe Public giving them so much attention next time as the experiences since the 2004 election, Kilroy and events surrounding his departure, will surely become quite a critical talking point, and may influence people to put their "x" elsewhere.

C_steam · 22-05-2007, 11:14 AM

Regarding the ED's, their future success or otherwise is to a large extent out of their hands.

They can be succesful IF Scotland starts moving more concretely towards autonomy and if the Welsh start having major advantages over the english in the same way that scotland has regarding university fees, transport, health care and so on.

The more the union appears to Joe Public to be splitting, the more the ED's can use this to their advantage.

22-05-2007, 12:39 AM	#58 (permalink)
Independent UKIP Uber Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: London Posts: 2,310	Re: The forum has a seer? In reply to Andrew Constantine I guess, not surprisingly, you're not persuaded by my suggestion that you stand aside in favour of UKIP throughout England (& Monmouthshire?) in 2009. What about those regions (& I must be honest, I haven't checked out the reduced region figures for 2009) such as the North East where there is even in your wildest dreams no prospect of an English Democrat being elected to the European Parliament? I trust you will stand aside and endorse UKIP in that and any other comparable regions in 2009.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

21-05-2007, 01:49 PM	#52 (permalink)
Populist Lee Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,965	>> the only moderate, mainstream party << There you are. It doesn't hurt to tell it as it is.

21-05-2007, 03:32 PM	#53 (permalink)
The Wooden Spoon Junior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Somewhere over the rainbow Posts: 14	How dare you suggest that Veritas are a spent force!!! Surely their 502 votes in the Mid & West Wales regional list vote (across 8 paliamentary constituencies), shows that they are clearly on the march. I await with eagnerness, the day that they form a government, and Ian Sheldon gets the coverted "Minsiter for Dogs" job. :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

22-05-2007, 08:02 AM	#59 (permalink)
andypandy Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 880	Saying that the English Democrats can't win this or that in 2009, does not do them any justice. People are forgetting the potential impact of the media on this debate, and come 2 years hence, the promotion of this or that party will ultimately depend on: 1. Which popular media personality is thrust into the spotlight, and is then associated with which particular party; 2. What particular issues are current at that time, and thus giving additional boost to whichever party; 3. The previous 2 years experiences and successes/ failures on any given party. As such, by February-March of that year, it should be by then quite aparent which party can reasonably expect to make a major impact on that election. Given UKIP's record in this area, I don't see Joe Public giving them so much attention next time as the experiences since the 2004 election, Kilroy and events surrounding his departure, will surely become quite a critical talking point, and may influence people to put their "x" elsewhere.

22-05-2007, 11:14 AM	#60 (permalink)
C_steam Super Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Paddling up 5hit creek..... Posts: 7,509	Regarding the ED's, their future success or otherwise is to a large extent out of their hands. They can be succesful IF Scotland starts moving more concretely towards autonomy and if the Welsh start having major advantages over the english in the same way that scotland has regarding university fees, transport, health care and so on. The more the union appears to Joe Public to be splitting, the more the ED's can use this to their advantage.