Reverse take over of UKIP on the cards?

Oliver · 20-05-2007, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tamashi

Quote:

Originally Posted by IndependentObserver

These Tories are actually more harm than good......

Not only these Tories but the plethora of other "non-political" Anti-EU Groups like Better Off Out, Campaign for an Independent Britain, Metric Martyrs, etc.

All of these allow people to feel they are doing their bit to fight against the EU while also allowing term to continue to vote Lib/Lab/Con.

The only moderate political party fighting the EU is UKIP. I've lost count of the people who tell me "I don't need to join UKIP because I'm supporting BOO, Campaign for Independent Britain or even worse the metric martyr" These organisations divide the anti EU effort and weaken the fight....divided we fall!

Tamashi - thanks for your post you expressed exactly, my thoughts :!:
But to understand those other groups needs some investigation. A lot of excellent people have been driven out of UKIP by bitter tactics, bufoonery and worse, they still want to fight the EU. You are right though UKIP is the vehicle for fighting the EU. IMHO and we should n't apologise for that.

Raymond Finch · 20-05-2007, 04:44 PM

[quote=Tom Wilde][quote="mkpdavies"

If on the other hand their incentive for joining UKIP was to benefit from UKIP's activist base, media recognition etc, then they would be making a big mistake to try to rebrand UKIP as the 'Real Conservatives' or similar.

I agree with Stathan that UKIP appeals to a much wider group of people than just disillusioned Tories, and many Ukippers would be quite unhappy to suddenly find themselves in a "Tory Party MkII".

If a bunch of Tory eurosceptic MPs decide to join UKIP, we should welcome them with open arms - it would be a fantastic opportunity for UKIP. It could well be the big break we've been waiting for. Of course if there were many of them then they would be bound to gain an influence over UKIP policy and tactics. But Nigel would be wise be make clear to them in any initial discussions that UKIP's name, its 100% opposition to EU membership and its broadly libertarian orientation aren't negotiable.[/quote]

This is right. I, and many of my colleagues didn't join this party to be a Tory pressure group. We joined because we don't trust the previously existing parties to set us free from the evil empire their traitorous forbears consigned us to.

UKIP MAN · 20-05-2007, 04:50 PM

UKIP is here to do one thing, get into parliament as the Government and take the United kingdom out of the EU, If you dont agree with that as far as I am concerned you are a traitor to this country.

All the people that sit on the sidelines and slag UKIP off but agree with us coming out of the EU, disgust me.

If there are people out there that want to join UKIP to achieve our aim, then we should welcome them.

kernow · 20-05-2007, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluemerle

UKIP will never become the leading party in British politics,

Not if you have any say in the matter they won't! :roll:

eublues · 20-05-2007, 06:00 PM

Whatever the gripes, UKIP is the only possible political direction at this time.

If people will pile in behind UKIP there will be a bigger base of competent, experienced people to get UKIP into better organisational shape.

A Tory party collapse may reshape UK politics in a radically anti-EU direction, but for practical purposes we have to forget that and continue to plough our own furrow and appeal to all who are anti-EU, anti-authoritarian and pro-small government.

mkpdavies · 20-05-2007, 06:04 PM

A core of MP's need to make the jump now. If they don't then a neo communist superstate is what we have to look forward to. At some point it will become very painful for us to get out.

The only question is do we have any MP's with principle and morals.

The outlook is worrying.

eublues · 20-05-2007, 06:06 PM

I suppose we can hope there are enough who have the means to not be concerned about their wallets.

22ANDUK · 20-05-2007, 06:14 PM

UKIPMAN wrote:

Quote:

UKIP is here to do one thing, get into parliament as the Government and take the United kingdom out of the EU, If you dont agree with that as far as I am concerned you are a traitor to this country.

What? Sorry can you go over this again? Does it mean if someone does not support UKIP they are a traitor? Or if they don't support UK withdrawal from the EU then they are traitors?

Raymond Finch · 20-05-2007, 06:16 PM

However, to expect this putative group of MPs to jump and form a "new" party would be utterly counter-productive. Having 2 Tory parties would merely cement the Labour parties grip on power and disillusion the non tories presently in UKIP. This supposed group of rebels would have to accept UKIPs rules and uphold UKIPs aims and policies rather than substitute Anti-EU for Pro-EU.

Populist Lee · 20-05-2007, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UKIP MAN

All the people that sit on the sidelines and slag UKIP off but agree with us coming out of the EU, disgust me.

And your opinion of those who do not sit on the sidelines is?

20-05-2007, 06:04 PM	#36 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,604	A core of MP's need to make the jump now. If they don't then a neo communist superstate is what we have to look forward to. At some point it will become very painful for us to get out. The only question is do we have any MP's with principle and morals. The outlook is worrying. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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20-05-2007, 04:44 PM	#32 (permalink)
Raymond Finch Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 508	[quote=Tom Wilde][quote="mkpdavies" If on the other hand their incentive for joining UKIP was to benefit from UKIP's activist base, media recognition etc, then they would be making a big mistake to try to rebrand UKIP as the 'Real Conservatives' or similar. I agree with Stathan that UKIP appeals to a much wider group of people than just disillusioned Tories, and many Ukippers would be quite unhappy to suddenly find themselves in a "Tory Party MkII". If a bunch of Tory eurosceptic MPs decide to join UKIP, we should welcome them with open arms - it would be a fantastic opportunity for UKIP. It could well be the big break we've been waiting for. Of course if there were many of them then they would be bound to gain an influence over UKIP policy and tactics. But Nigel would be wise be make clear to them in any initial discussions that UKIP's name, its 100% opposition to EU membership and its broadly libertarian orientation aren't negotiable.[/quote] This is right. I, and many of my colleagues didn't join this party to be a Tory pressure group. We joined because we don't trust the previously existing parties to set us free from the evil empire their traitorous forbears consigned us to.

20-05-2007, 04:50 PM	#33 (permalink)
UKIP MAN Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,897	UKIP is here to do one thing, get into parliament as the Government and take the United kingdom out of the EU, If you dont agree with that as far as I am concerned you are a traitor to this country. All the people that sit on the sidelines and slag UKIP off but agree with us coming out of the EU, disgust me. If there are people out there that want to join UKIP to achieve our aim, then we should welcome them.

20-05-2007, 06:00 PM	#35 (permalink)
eublues Uber Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,970	Whatever the gripes, UKIP is the only possible political direction at this time. If people will pile in behind UKIP there will be a bigger base of competent, experienced people to get UKIP into better organisational shape. A Tory party collapse may reshape UK politics in a radically anti-EU direction, but for practical purposes we have to forget that and continue to plough our own furrow and appeal to all who are anti-EU, anti-authoritarian and pro-small government.

20-05-2007, 06:06 PM	#37 (permalink)
eublues Uber Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,970	I suppose we can hope there are enough who have the means to not be concerned about their wallets.

20-05-2007, 06:16 PM	#39 (permalink)
Raymond Finch Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 508	However, to expect this putative group of MPs to jump and form a "new" party would be utterly counter-productive. Having 2 Tory parties would merely cement the Labour parties grip on power and disillusion the non tories presently in UKIP. This supposed group of rebels would have to accept UKIPs rules and uphold UKIPs aims and policies rather than substitute Anti-EU for Pro-EU.