'Bloody-minded' MEP [viz. N. Farage] beats Euro smoking ban

stathan · 07-04-2007, 07:00 PM

I guess that all depends whether we're talking about my health or yours.

The difference I suppose is that I try not to intentionally damage others health wheras you presumably don't give a damn about anybody else's.

I don't walk into a pub take a sip of beer and spit it into the person next to me's face, therefore I don't expect some smelly smoker to cover me and my clothes in smoke that they've just dragged back up from their lungs.

I suppose being a libertarian exempts you and others from criticism of that sort of behaviour.

Well I guess after years of not thinking about others, you've now been forced too, tough luck I've been forced to put up with it for years now it's your turn.

mkpdavies · 07-04-2007, 07:02 PM

Well I don't smoke for starters.

I do accept however, that if a person owns a pub and wants to allow smoking, then that is his choice. I can choose not to go there or choose to put up with it.

You want to remove choice and stamp your fascist world view on others.

stathan · 07-04-2007, 07:13 PM

I see... I never said that you were a smoker just that you weren't all that bothered about others health, surely if not bothered about your own you have no right to decide the fate of my own and others?

So on the basis that if every pub and club decides to allow smoking then we're back to square one and non smokers including the pub workers have the choice to not ever go out for a pint or earn a living or carry on stinking of other peoples smoke and contracting cancer and the myriad of other diseases known to be caused by secondary smoke inhalation.

Interesingly enough with the smoking ban already in force in Wales I was enjoying a pint and chat in Penarth rugby club yeterday on traditionally the busiest day in the clubs year. The difference in air quality was so huge compared to normal that when somebody outside the building lit up and a few traces of smoke wafted inside almost the whole bar immediately noticed and started to comment on the smell.

mkpdavies · 07-04-2007, 07:18 PM

Quote:

I see... I never said that you were a smoker just that you weren't all that bothered about others health, surely if not bothered about your own you have no right to decide the fate of my own and others?

Upside down logic. I fully support the right for private individuals to protect their own health. If they believe smoke is going to kill them, then they have the brain not to use another private individuals facilities.

Quote:

So on the basis that if every pub and club decides to allow smoking then we're back to square one and non smokers including the pub workers have the choice to not ever go out for a pint or earn a living or carry on stinking of other peoples smoke and contracting cancer and the myriad of other diseases known to be caused by secondary smoke inhalation

If there is a demand for non-smoking, then non-smoking there will be. If notm, tough. Start your own up if you want, but don't expect others to bow to your personal requirments and tastes. That's fascism, pure and simple.

Quote:

Interesingly enough with the smoking ban already in force in Wales I was enjoying a pint and chat in Penarth rugby club yeterday on traditionally the busiest day in the clubs year. The difference in air quality was so huge compared to normal that when somebody outside the building lit up and a few traces of smoke wafted inside almost the whole bar immediately noticed and started to comment on the smell.

Whoopie doo. I'm sure all the pub owners who go out of business and smokers who now have to stay at home because of your demands are delighted.

tito · 07-04-2007, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stathan

So on the basis that if every pub and club decides to allow smoking then we're back to square one

If you are afraid, which is plainly obvious based on your conjecture, of this happening then you must believe that given the choice pubs would stay smoking. It is a shame that society has not yet conformed to the paternalist state, isn't it?

I don't smoke, I don't like smoke, I would never allow smoke in my own property. But then again, I don't go to the pub for fresh air.

stathan · 07-04-2007, 07:33 PM

Why would a smoker have to stay at home? I'd suggest that it's a pretty sad person whose whole life revolves around having a fag and which fact determines whether they leave their house or not.

Perhaps at this juncture it may be worth pointing out that forums are created for the express purpose of debate and exchange of views. I'm quite happy to debate you to a standstill however it would appear that you lack the intellect to present your case without resorting to fascist jibes in response.

If you feel threatened or intimidated by the fact that others have opposite views to yourself on any particular subject I would suggest that you will always be portrayed in a better light if you counter by reasoned and intelligent debate rather than the name calling refuge of the vocabulary cowards.

I'd be more than happy to continue this discussion all night unless you run out of your rather flimsy counter argument, but I must point out that I'm off out to the smoke free pub in about half an hour.

tito · 07-04-2007, 07:38 PM

Quote:

If you feel threatened or intimidated by the fact that others have opposite views to yourself on any particular subject I would suggest that you will always be portrayed in a better light if you counter by reasoned and intelligent debate

Funny, it seems your last post was exactly what you are preaching against.

stathan · 07-04-2007, 07:41 PM

But of course that is exactly my point, I made it, you disagreed and we can both agree to differ.

And neither of us had to resort to name calling to make either of our views clear.

mkpdavies · 07-04-2007, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Perhaps at this juncture it may be worth pointing out that forums are created for the express purpose of debate and exchange of views. I'm quite happy to debate you to a standstill however it would appear that you lack the intellect to present your case without resorting to fascist jibes in response.

It's a fact. You want your preference enforced on people in their own private domain.

If that isn't fascist, I don't know what is. Just because you don't like it and whine that it is a jibe, doesn't stop it being a fact.

If you don't like being labeled a fascist, stop being one.

Michael Heaver · 07-04-2007, 07:49 PM

I find it hysterical that we live in the most Politically Correct times ever, yet seem to have a regime that resembles fascism in a liberal form!

The fact is though, if you think about it, that the enforcement of these laws will give UKIP another very solid base to appeal to the average man from.

I realise this isn't right, but at least it shows the government continiously for what it is for - a pro-PC group who think that complaining, outspoken, left wingers of this country represent the majority of this country. They do not, especially when it comes to those who love a casual drink down their local.

View Poll Results: The smoking ban...
I agree with the new law	8	22.86%
Nigel is right - pubs and restaurants should be allowed to choose	24	68.57%
There should be no ban at all	3	8.57%
Other / Don't Know	0	0%
Voters: 35. You may not vote on this poll

07-04-2007, 07:02 PM	#12 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 32,078 Party: Libertarian Party	Well I don't smoke for starters. I do accept however, that if a person owns a pub and wants to allow smoking, then that is his choice. I can choose not to go there or choose to put up with it. You want to remove choice and stamp your fascist world view on others. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Lib Dems

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07-04-2007, 07:00 PM	#11 (permalink)
stathan Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 423	I guess that all depends whether we're talking about my health or yours. The difference I suppose is that I try not to intentionally damage others health wheras you presumably don't give a damn about anybody else's. I don't walk into a pub take a sip of beer and spit it into the person next to me's face, therefore I don't expect some smelly smoker to cover me and my clothes in smoke that they've just dragged back up from their lungs. I suppose being a libertarian exempts you and others from criticism of that sort of behaviour. Well I guess after years of not thinking about others, you've now been forced too, tough luck I've been forced to put up with it for years now it's your turn.

07-04-2007, 07:13 PM	#13 (permalink)
stathan Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 423	I see... I never said that you were a smoker just that you weren't all that bothered about others health, surely if not bothered about your own you have no right to decide the fate of my own and others? So on the basis that if every pub and club decides to allow smoking then we're back to square one and non smokers including the pub workers have the choice to not ever go out for a pint or earn a living or carry on stinking of other peoples smoke and contracting cancer and the myriad of other diseases known to be caused by secondary smoke inhalation. Interesingly enough with the smoking ban already in force in Wales I was enjoying a pint and chat in Penarth rugby club yeterday on traditionally the busiest day in the clubs year. The difference in air quality was so huge compared to normal that when somebody outside the building lit up and a few traces of smoke wafted inside almost the whole bar immediately noticed and started to comment on the smell.

07-04-2007, 07:33 PM	#16 (permalink)
stathan Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 423	Why would a smoker have to stay at home? I'd suggest that it's a pretty sad person whose whole life revolves around having a fag and which fact determines whether they leave their house or not. Perhaps at this juncture it may be worth pointing out that forums are created for the express purpose of debate and exchange of views. I'm quite happy to debate you to a standstill however it would appear that you lack the intellect to present your case without resorting to fascist jibes in response. If you feel threatened or intimidated by the fact that others have opposite views to yourself on any particular subject I would suggest that you will always be portrayed in a better light if you counter by reasoned and intelligent debate rather than the name calling refuge of the vocabulary cowards. I'd be more than happy to continue this discussion all night unless you run out of your rather flimsy counter argument, but I must point out that I'm off out to the smoke free pub in about half an hour.

07-04-2007, 07:41 PM	#18 (permalink)
stathan Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 423	But of course that is exactly my point, I made it, you disagreed and we can both agree to differ. And neither of us had to resort to name calling to make either of our views clear.

07-04-2007, 07:49 PM	#20 (permalink)
Michael Heaver Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 394 Party: UKIP	I find it hysterical that we live in the most Politically Correct times ever, yet seem to have a regime that resembles fascism in a liberal form! The fact is though, if you think about it, that the enforcement of these laws will give UKIP another very solid base to appeal to the average man from. I realise this isn't right, but at least it shows the government continiously for what it is for - a pro-PC group who think that complaining, outspoken, left wingers of this country represent the majority of this country. They do not, especially when it comes to those who love a casual drink down their local.