Bluemerle

Like it or not, we can only get out of the EU via Westminster. UKIP will never have enough MPs to get us out, so the Tory Party becomes the only/most likely party to do something about it. :twisted:

eublues

So you seem to be saying that you approve of what you say Farage and the peers are up to, as you say that pressure on the Tory party is the only realistic way of getting out of the EU (which I imagine you want).

Millennium3

With the dissatisfaction shown by the voters of the three main parties and the low turnout at the last two GE's there is a gaping hole for another party to become a big player.

UKIP, having a recognised 'brand name' could fill that hole, but to do so it must provide policies which correct the current 'wrongs' and 'injustices' which people from the whole political spectrum of see as such.

If UKIP insists on being a right wing party then few will support us - a middle path has to be found.

devilskitchen

It hasn't; it's entirely my own opinion.

I didn't say that it can only be cured from the bottom. What I was suggesting was that, if "grassroots" members are so disatisfied, then the branches might -- just might, you understand -- find that doing something themselves rather than looking to the leadership, might be a good place to start.

I then gave an example: that of the websites. I am still waiting to hear an opinion on that one.

The party is more than the leaders; indeed, the bulk of the party is in the branches and the branch members. Were they to make a concerted effort, then I am sure that change could be effected, yes.

Thank you for conceding that point.

Erm, is that the same leadership that many people on this forum have derided and insulted? Is that the same leadership who are supposed to be control freaks and who will brook no dissent?

Um, I had kind of got the impression that people didn't want to be bullied by the leadership? I thought that these grassroots people were the ones who knew best?

I would have thought that, if you think you know what to do then the best way of demonstrating that would be to... well... do it.

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Unio Europaea delenda est

devilskitchen

Yeah, well, I am trying to do something of the sort with IndependenceHome.org, which would be a central resource for this sort of thing. In fact, it was partially set up in response to comments on this forum.

I asked for contributions to IH.org: and the response has been... what was your word? Ah yes, zilch.

The trouble with a great number of people on this forum is that they are all mouth and no trousers...

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Unio Europaea delenda est

Millennium3

Clearly it is not impossible for individual branches to declare a UDI. However, politics is a cut throat business, you must conceed in such circumstances UKIP, as a whole, will perform far less effectively and be far more at the mercy of its rivals than if it were a party, united by a leadership which wished for this to be the case.

brian lee

Devilskitchen talked about local websites. I thought I covered that with a previous posting. However, a branch with only one or two active members is unlikely to be able to set up and run a meaningful website. It needs to be attended to nearly every day and be run by people who are political, coherent, can spell, have good journalistic experience and access to lots of good pictures. It also needs at least two people. One to prepare the material, do the drafting, etc. and another to check it for mistakes. (The branches have to struggle to get enough people to stand at elections).

Even UKIP Central Office has difficulty running a proper website that will appeal to the younger people and not be free from lots of mistakes.

Millenium3 suggested it was not impossible for Branches to declare a UDI. They cannot do that because they would be disaffiliated. Hence anything they did would not be on behalf of UKIP.

In passing, I must say that several posters on the forum don't appear to know how little a contribution most members of UKIP make towards the running of local branches. Apparently, their most useful contribution is to vote for a Party Leader who performs well on radio and TV.

eublues

Agree with that. The grass roots are very weak. The lead has to come primarily from the centre. It may not be healthy but it's the way it is generally.

Millennium3

This was not my original suggestion, but a response to DK who suggested that branches [who think they know best] should just go ahead - I had interpreted this as a UDI - I acknowledge they would be disaffiliated and you will see from my reply that I do not believe UKIP could be successful working this way.

Perhaps DK was hinting that there is much room for branches to 'do their own thing'. After all, according to the postings concerning the alleged missing £118,000, NF set up the Ashford call centre without the agreement of the NEC - and he became leader!