UKIP Councillor to stand for Northern Ireland Assembly

arden forester · 14-02-2007, 08:36 PM

Quote:

If UKIP takes the side of the Ulster Unionists it will lose all support from the people of Irish stock here who want a United Ireland.

I still don't get it! He's just left the UUP as being of no use as a political party (in his opinion). UKIP is UKIP, the UUP is the UUP. I'm not sure the side is the same, but maybe a Ukipper could explain.

Just for the record, not all "people of Irish stock here who want a United Ireland" (you've just added the United Ireland bit) vote on a "United Ireland" basis. Seems you attribute a herd mentality to them. :?

This-England · 14-02-2007, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arden forester

Quote:

If UKIP takes the side of the Ulster Unionists it will lose all support from the people of Irish stock here who want a United Ireland.

I still don't get it! He's just left the UUP as being of no use as a political party (in his opinion). UKIP is UKIP, the UUP is the UUP. I'm not sure the side is the same, but maybe a Ukipper could explain.

Just for the record, not all "people of Irish stock here who want a United Ireland" (you've just added the United Ireland bit) vote on a "United Ireland" basis. Seems you attribute a herd mentality to them. :?

When I say "Ulster Unionists" I don’t mean the party I mean the people of Ulster who support the Union.
Siding with them could lose you quite a lot of support in places of the Irish Diaspora like Liverpool, Manchester, Birmingham, Glasgow and Middlesbrough.

Britannist · 14-02-2007, 11:51 PM

[quote="This-England"]

Quote:

Originally Posted by arden forester

Quote:

If UKIP takes the side of the Ulster Unionists it will lose all support from the people of Irish stock here who want a United Ireland.

No it won't. The Conservative Party supports the Union of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and gets the votes of many people partly of wholly of Irish Catholic origin.

mkpdavies · 15-02-2007, 12:00 AM

Quote:

The Conservative Party supports the Union of Great Britain

*coughs*

Like hell it does. The only Union Blue Labour supports now, is the European variety.

Independent UKIP · 15-02-2007, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by This-England

I didnt think the UKUP was still up to that level of activity. Why didnt your UKIP man stand for them as they are supposed to be your sister party in N Ireland are they not?

They are not up to that level of activity. 6 of their 13 candidates are one Robert McCartney. I have no idea what happens if he were to win more than one seat. UKUP did have informal links to UKIP in the past, eg McCartney spoke at at least one UKIP conference. There has never been any formal relationship as far as I am aware.

Britannist · 15-02-2007, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

Quote:

The Conservative Party supports the Union of Great Britain

*coughs*
Like hell it does. The only Union Blue Labour supports now, is the European variety.

I still don't accept that the members of the Conservative Party - overall - back the EU. They don't.

There is very little (or no) difference between a meeting of a local UKIP branch and a local Conservative branch. Neither like the EU.

Sadly, this is not being reflected up at the top of the Conservative Party.

mkpdavies · 15-02-2007, 12:39 AM

Sorry, I can no longer believe that.

They fully accept what Cameron is doing and have allowed leader after leader to hand Britain over on a plate.

No one can be that thick, so I guess that Tories really don't care about Britain. It's the only conclusion there is.

Britannist · 15-02-2007, 12:50 AM

Many of the people who voted for David Cameron did so because he said he would pull his party out of the europhile EPP group in Brussels.

As we know, this has not happened.

The Conservative leadership has made it quite clear it wants to stay in the EU.

The number of anti-EU peeple in the Conservative Party, however, is far greater than the number of UKIP members.

There was an opinion poll which showed about half of Conservatives want out of the EU.

So there is now this gap between what the Conservative membership want and what the party leadership says.

In other words - more Conservative party members back the Daniel Hannan view on 'europe' than the David Cameron view (and certainly far more back Daniel Hannan MEP than 'Ken' Clarke).

Nigel Farage sees this gap widening and his strategy is for UKIP to fill it.

He seeks to get anti-EU Conservatives to switch to UKIP - not just in voting, but as members. And some have been coming across including some well-known names in political circles.

This week's YouGov poll shows an increase in support for UKIP - putting the party on 5% (7% in the English Midlands/Wales) and the Conservatives are down 1% in another poll (despite Labour's problems).

The Cornerstone Group of eurosceptic Conservative MPs have just issued their strongest criticism of the Cameron strategy to date.

I should think that Nigel Farage - a former member of the Conservative Party who knows that the rank-and-file membership of the Conservative Party don't like the EU (except for a few exceptions) - is pleased with the way things have been going in recent weeks.

The anti-EU vote used to automatically go to the Conservatives. Since the formation of UKIP it no longer does so. More and more of it is switching to UKIP.

This-England · 15-02-2007, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Britannist

Many of the people who voted for David Cameron did so because he said he would pull his party out of the europhile EPP group in Brussels.

As we know, this has not happened.

The Conservative leadership has made it quite clear it wants to stay in the EU.

The number of anti-EU peeple in the Conservative Party, however, is far greater than the number of UKIP members.

There was an opinion poll which showed about half of Conservatives want out of the EU.

So there is now this gap between what the Conservative membership want and what the party leadership says.

In other words - more Conservative party members back the Daniel Hannan view on 'europe' than the David Cameron view (and certainly far more back Daniel Hannan MEP than 'Ken' Clarke).

Nigel Farage sees this gap widening and his strategy is for UKIP to fill it.

He seeks to get anti-EU Conservatives to switch to UKIP - not just in voting, but as members. And some have been coming across including some well-known names in political circles.

This week's YouGov poll shows an increase in support for UKIP - putting the party on 5% (7% in the English Midlands/Wales) and the Conservatives are down 1% in another poll (despite Labour's problems).

The Cornerstone Group of eurosceptic Conservative MPs have just issued their strongest criticism of the Cameron strategy to date.

I should think that Nigel Farage - a former member of the Conservative Party who knows that the rank-and-file membership of the Conservative Party don't like the EU (except for a few exceptions) - is pleased with the way things have been going in recent weeks.

The anti-EU vote used to automatically go to the Conservatives. Since the formation of UKIP it no longer does so. More and more of it is switching to UKIP.

Most Conservatives have wanted to end immigration since the 1960's too but the leadership/dictatorship of that party wont do it.

rjt · 15-02-2007, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Independent UKIP

Quote:

Originally Posted by This-England

I didnt think the UKUP was still up to that level of activity. Why didnt your UKIP man stand for them as they are supposed to be your sister party in N Ireland are they not?

They are not up to that level of activity. 6 of their 13 candidates are one Robert McCartney. I have no idea what happens if he were to win more than one seat. UKUP did have informal links to UKIP in the past, eg McCartney spoke at at least one UKIP conference. There has never been any formal relationship as far as I am aware.

From what I remember when I was in UKIP you have got that right, I have a lot of time for Bob Mcartney he is a very learned man and I was sorry when he lost his westminister seat in 2001 to Lady Hermon, I was a little supprised to learn that this councillor had not joined the UKUP but I think essentially they are not properly orgainsing as a party at the moment.

Whatever although not a member of UKIP myslef anymore it would be churlish not to wish him well, he has taken a very brave step.

15-02-2007, 12:39 AM	#27 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 32,078 Party: Libertarian Party	Sorry, I can no longer believe that. They fully accept what Cameron is doing and have allowed leader after leader to hand Britain over on a plate. No one can be that thick, so I guess that Tories really don't care about Britain. It's the only conclusion there is. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Lib Dems

15-02-2007, 12:50 AM	#28 (permalink)
Britannist Uber Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: London Posts: 23,176	Strategy of Nigel Farage to get anti-EU Tories to join UKIP Many of the people who voted for David Cameron did so because he said he would pull his party out of the europhile EPP group in Brussels. As we know, this has not happened. The Conservative leadership has made it quite clear it wants to stay in the EU. The number of anti-EU peeple in the Conservative Party, however, is far greater than the number of UKIP members. There was an opinion poll which showed about half of Conservatives want out of the EU. So there is now this gap between what the Conservative membership want and what the party leadership says. In other words - more Conservative party members back the Daniel Hannan view on 'europe' than the David Cameron view (and certainly far more back Daniel Hannan MEP than 'Ken' Clarke). Nigel Farage sees this gap widening and his strategy is for UKIP to fill it. He seeks to get anti-EU Conservatives to switch to UKIP - not just in voting, but as members. And some have been coming across including some well-known names in political circles. This week's YouGov poll shows an increase in support for UKIP - putting the party on 5% (7% in the English Midlands/Wales) and the Conservatives are down 1% in another poll (despite Labour's problems). The Cornerstone Group of eurosceptic Conservative MPs have just issued their strongest criticism of the Cameron strategy to date. I should think that Nigel Farage - a former member of the Conservative Party who knows that the rank-and-file membership of the Conservative Party don't like the EU (except for a few exceptions) - is pleased with the way things have been going in recent weeks. The anti-EU vote used to automatically go to the Conservatives. Since the formation of UKIP it no longer does so. More and more of it is switching to UKIP.

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