extra ordinary

sorry if I am repeating a subject already done ?

but did any note that mr mote has joined ITS one of several anti eu euro groups but this ITS has on board lePen and others of that elk.

if you put ashley mote in your search then find bbc and guardian etc etc they make him sound a dangerous radical and the liberal democrats put the boot into ukip as well while they are about it -as you expect they might.

some say mote is brilliant. what do others think of him? and what is this ITS group?. the press say hard right, far right, facist and so on.

any thoughts ?

Edward Longshanks

Actually this is an admirable group of European like minded souls who wish to protect their various countries heritage, culture and people from non-European influences and defend Western civilization. Long may it prosper! :wink:

Tom Wilde

Actually, it's a bunch of neo-fascists.

Led by some holocaust-denier from the Front National, it also includes Mussolini's grand-daughter, Alessandra Mussolini, who doesn't even need the 'neo' in front of the adjective 'fascist'.

According to Wikipedia...

In 1946, Benito Mussolini's surviving supporters set up a neo-fascist party called the Movimento Sociale Italiano or MSI. (Not to be confused with MFI, which is a flatpack furniture warehouse.) Alessandra Mussolini joined MSI and was elected to the Italian parliament for it in 1992. However, MSI eventually merged with another party to form a new party, the National Alliance. The leader of the new party, Gianfranco Fini, was keen to distance himself from the fascist past, which he described as 'absolute evil' so he apologised to Israel for Musso's 1938 racial laws. Little Alessandra thought this was an affront to her granddad's proud intellectual heritage (snigger) and flounced out of the National Alliance to set up a new, purer-than-pure fascist party called Social Action. She won 1.2% of the Italian vote at the 2004 Euro elections, sending her triumphantly to the Brussels pig-trough.

The whole situation with Mote and the new grouping, and UKIP's reaction to it, has been discussed at length on several other threads. Perhaps we should adjourn there for any further deliberations, to avoid repetition?

Robert Edwards

"Neo-fascists", "Holocaust deniers" ... this is the vocabulary of the far-Left. Ordinary, decent patriots take no notice of such weasel words.
And, of course, Wikipedia is notorious for its inaccuracies and, sometimes, total distortions.
In the 1930s, many prominent British politicians, including Churchill, did not have a bad word to say of Mussolini. In fact, they praised him highly.
Most of the parties that Tom Wilde mentioned are "post-fascist".

Alex McKee

Robert, welcome back. Long, long time no see.

Robert Edwards

Thank you, Alex.

Internationalist

But as they say, if the cap fits... :shock:

Tom Wilde is perfectly correct to point out the derivation of some of these movements. The term "Holocaust denier" is perfectly appropriate for those who wish to deny the historical fact of the Holocaust. (Obviously there will be details that are the proper subject of historical research but the major facts are well known and established.)

I would agree with you on that point.

Robert Edwards

I read complaints of Wikipedia almost on a daily basis. The complaints invariably refer to a Leftist slant.

UKIP MAN

Internationalist

Well the problem is exactly what is being debated. I said the term "Holocaust denier" was appropriate for those who deny the historical fact of the Holocaust but not those who engage in (genuine) historical research about details. That could conceivably put me in agreement with you if we are being generous. However, I would add that those who say that the gas chambers did not exist, that the numbers murdered did not go into the millions or that there was no systematic plan to exterminate the Jews sound like deniers to me.

Indeed, though these things did not of course just "occur" as a by-product of war but were systematically planned and executed.