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Britannist · 19-01-2007, 02:22 PM

Spon Plague said/quoted in the last posting "the EU's colours, gold and blue, are the offical colours of the Virgin Mary - the original plan of the council of Europe, when they designed their flag was to show that all good European Catholics were under her protection..."

My reply:

The Roman Catholic (RC) church and the EU have no official connection, whatever input the RC church had in the foundation of what has now become the EU monster.

Indeed, today's EU is quite hostile to Roman Catholics - it refused their requests to include reference to Christianity in the text of the EU Constitution.

The EU so-called 'Parliament' refused to approve the nomination of a staunch Italian Roman Catholic as an EU Commissioner in November 2004.

The flag, incidentally, behind Our Lady (in the image above in the last posting to this thread) contains a larger number of stars than the 12 maximum in the revolting EU flag now in use.

Roman Catholics think less of the EEC/EU today than at any time in its 50 history.

SponPlague · 19-01-2007, 03:05 PM

See the borrom of the link in my last post:

Quote:

I was inclined to dismiss this theory of Catholic symbolism in the European flag as entirely Da Vinci Code-style conspiratorial nonsense, and to regard coincidence as the most likely explanation. Unfortunately, Arsène Heitz, the accredited designer of the flag, has been reported as admitting, or rather proudly declaring that the flag was indeed intended to symbolise Mary. (14) Even more disturbingly, there is in the online archives of the Council of Europe a transcript of an interview in French with Paul Levy conducted as recently as February 1998, in which he claims that he contrived with Léon Marchal, then Secretary-General of the Council of Europe, to have the European flag adopted on 8 December 1955, the Feast of the Immaculate Conception. Levy commented as well that the above quotation from the Apocalypse forms the Introit to the Mass for this feast day. (15) It is not impossible that old men reminiscing may have allowed piety to colour their recall of events to a certain extent. Harder to explain away is the fact that there is in Strasbourg Cathedral a Marian stained glass window surmounted by the same circle of twelve gold stars as appears on the European flag. (16) The upshot of all this is that for at least some individuals the European flag has particular Roman Catholic connotations which make it an unsuitable emblem for those not of that denomination.

Sean Murphy
Centre for Irish Genealogical and Historical Studies
9 December 2005, revised 25 January 2006

(13) 'Mary's Stars on the European Flag', http://www.giveshare.org/BibleStudy/...rysstars.html; 'Europe in Bible Prophecy', http://www.lamblion.com/articles/pro...s/Signs-08.php.
(14) '"Coincidences' of European Flag', Daily Catholic, 8-9 December 1999, http://www.dailycatholic.org/issue/a...xt/dec8nv2.htm.
(15) Transcript of interview with Paul Levy, 26 February 1998, http://info.coe.int/archives/hist/flag/levy_1998.pdf.
(16) 'The Design of the European flag was inspired by the Immaculate Conception', Lourdes Magazine, July-August 2004, pages 15-7 (thanks to the editorial staff for providing a copy of this issue).

Petrina · 19-01-2007, 03:53 PM

Purple and gold are the colours of divinity and as such they outrank blue and gold any day.!

20-01-2007, 12:38 AM

yeaaah :P :P

http://maria-sharapova-sucks-balls.i...section/224103
regards, Andickbas8

Britannist · 20-01-2007, 12:50 AM

The EU blue and gold flag is horrible. The circle of 12 on it could be said to have more to do with the Devil's Circle than anything else.

As for it being a flag with Roman Catholic connections. The EU is now much bigger than Roman Catholic (RC) supporters of the original EEC (now EU) could have envisaged in he 1950's.

The EEC/EU is also less RC than ever in the religious denomination of the people in the EU.

I did a calculation a couple of weeks ago on the religious affiliations of the people of the 27 countries in the EU. I concluded that just half of the entire population of the EU area is RC - maximum (it's quite possibly lower). The population of the EU is 470 million - half that number will be RC. But it may be much less if one works out the figure using Census returns (rather than the total population of each country and estimates of religious breakdown in each).

As I have written before, Roman Catholic people have as much - if not more reason than other faiths - to be concerned about the EU hierarchy who are now mainly a mixture of atheists, agnostics and secularists with little time for RC or Anglo-Catholic teachings.

The authors of the EU Constitution refused Vatican requests to include reference to God and europe's Christian heritage in the treaty.

The EU and its europhile supporters believe that the EU is their religion and it must come first - above national Governments and certainly above the church.

The EU couldn't care less about Roman Catholics or any other faith.

Oliver · 20-01-2007, 02:16 AM

There have been faithful Christian Ministers with UKIP from the beginning. :!: :!: :!:

It is however so good to see some "names" joining the struggle.

Let us try to encourage them - how?

By not rubbing their noses in the secular rant (code for something else) that I have heard time without number by gritty UKIPers. I wish I had a £1 for ech time I have enjoyed the philosophical slant that ukip is a secular party.

Let us welcome the ex-Tory Lords, welcome the Cof E Ministers, let us build a party full of goodwill and desire to push on and make our case absolutely irresitable on every front.

I can hear Tory knees knocking here, I am sure you can too.

Let us up the stakes, pile on the pressure.

Its windy up here again today and its not the weather, its the Tories.

And I just love it

Chip · 22-01-2007, 09:09 PM

Well said

Lets hope more people think this way.

Winston's Black Dog · 23-01-2007, 12:33 AM

As a point of information Peter Mullen has contributed an article to The Catholic Herald of 19th January 2007.

The Roman Catholic Bishops have traditionally been very pro EU but that attitude is changing with the secularisation referred to above and the lack of sanctity for human life that is becoming increasingly prevalent throughout the EU.

There are a number of influential Catholics who, in varying degrees, are Eurosceptic: Iain Duncan- Smith and Edward Leigh to name two.

Peter Mullen's site is www.st-michaels.org.uk

Winston's Black Dog · 23-01-2007, 11:06 AM

Although substantially written in 2000 this article is still highly relevant as to the impact of the EU on Christianity. It also gives an excellent historical perspective.

Finally it demonstrates that not all practising Catholics are rabid Europhiles!

http://www.christianorder.com/featur...res_oct00.html

Britannist · 23-01-2007, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winston's Black Dog

There are a number of influential Catholics who, in varying degrees, are Eurosceptic: Iain Duncan- Smith and Edward Leigh to name two.

And there's staunch Roman Catholic Bill Cash, the strongly eurosceptic Conservative MP for Stone.

19-01-2007, 02:22 PM	#11 (permalink)
Britannist Uber Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: London Posts: 23,176	Roman Catholics not fond of EU Spon Plague said/quoted in the last posting "the EU's colours, gold and blue, are the offical colours of the Virgin Mary - the original plan of the council of Europe, when they designed their flag was to show that all good European Catholics were under her protection..." My reply: The Roman Catholic (RC) church and the EU have no official connection, whatever input the RC church had in the foundation of what has now become the EU monster. Indeed, today's EU is quite hostile to Roman Catholics - it refused their requests to include reference to Christianity in the text of the EU Constitution. The EU so-called 'Parliament' refused to approve the nomination of a staunch Italian Roman Catholic as an EU Commissioner in November 2004. The flag, incidentally, behind Our Lady (in the image above in the last posting to this thread) contains a larger number of stars than the 12 maximum in the revolting EU flag now in use. Roman Catholics think less of the EEC/EU today than at any time in its 50 history.

20-01-2007, 12:50 AM	#15 (permalink)
Britannist Uber Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: London Posts: 23,176	EU couldn't care less about Roman Catholics or other faiths The EU blue and gold flag is horrible. The circle of 12 on it could be said to have more to do with the Devil's Circle than anything else. As for it being a flag with Roman Catholic connections. The EU is now much bigger than Roman Catholic (RC) supporters of the original EEC (now EU) could have envisaged in he 1950's. The EEC/EU is also less RC than ever in the religious denomination of the people in the EU. I did a calculation a couple of weeks ago on the religious affiliations of the people of the 27 countries in the EU. I concluded that just half of the entire population of the EU area is RC - maximum (it's quite possibly lower). The population of the EU is 470 million - half that number will be RC. But it may be much less if one works out the figure using Census returns (rather than the total population of each country and estimates of religious breakdown in each). As I have written before, Roman Catholic people have as much - if not more reason than other faiths - to be concerned about the EU hierarchy who are now mainly a mixture of atheists, agnostics and secularists with little time for RC or Anglo-Catholic teachings. The authors of the EU Constitution refused Vatican requests to include reference to God and europe's Christian heritage in the treaty. The EU and its europhile supporters believe that the EU is their religion and it must come first - above national Governments and certainly above the church. The EU couldn't care less about Roman Catholics or any other faith.

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19-01-2007, 03:53 PM	#13 (permalink)
Petrina Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: sussex Posts: 1,064	Purple and gold are the colours of divinity and as such they outrank blue and gold any day.!

20-01-2007, 12:38 AM	#14 (permalink)
Guest Posts: n/a	yeaaah :P :P http://maria-sharapova-sucks-balls.i...section/224103 regards, Andickbas8

20-01-2007, 02:16 AM	#16 (permalink)
Oliver Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: WHITBY North Yorkshire (but my heart is in Woking) Posts: 1,062	There have been faithful Christian Ministers with UKIP from the beginning. :!: :!: :!: It is however so good to see some "names" joining the struggle. Let us try to encourage them - how? By not rubbing their noses in the secular rant (code for something else) that I have heard time without number by gritty UKIPers. I wish I had a £1 for ech time I have enjoyed the philosophical slant that ukip is a secular party. Let us welcome the ex-Tory Lords, welcome the Cof E Ministers, let us build a party full of goodwill and desire to push on and make our case absolutely irresitable on every front. I can hear Tory knees knocking here, I am sure you can too. Let us up the stakes, pile on the pressure. Its windy up here again today and its not the weather, its the Tories. And I just love it

22-01-2007, 09:09 PM	#17 (permalink)
Chip Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: North West UK Posts: 618	Well said Lets hope more people think this way.

23-01-2007, 12:33 AM	#18 (permalink)
Winston's Black Dog Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 62	As a point of information Peter Mullen has contributed an article to The Catholic Herald of 19th January 2007. The Roman Catholic Bishops have traditionally been very pro EU but that attitude is changing with the secularisation referred to above and the lack of sanctity for human life that is becoming increasingly prevalent throughout the EU. There are a number of influential Catholics who, in varying degrees, are Eurosceptic: Iain Duncan- Smith and Edward Leigh to name two. Peter Mullen's site is www.st-michaels.org.uk

23-01-2007, 11:06 AM	#19 (permalink)
Winston's Black Dog Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 62	Although substantially written in 2000 this article is still highly relevant as to the impact of the EU on Christianity. It also gives an excellent historical perspective. Finally it demonstrates that not all practising Catholics are rabid Europhiles! http://www.christianorder.com/featur...res_oct00.html