2 members of House of Lords join UKIP

mkpdavies · 10-01-2007, 10:23 AM

I don't think it will hurt to see the full on EU pressure group people form their own thing.

Britian needs both at the moment, not some mish mash all in one job.

kernow · 10-01-2007, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryansoton

[
I disagree. From what i know of the Plymouth situation is the left as the were disillousioned with Nigels direction.

Since 2004 EU elections we have been treading water, that was until Nigel became leader, now were moving forward with a growing momentum!

tamashi · 10-01-2007, 11:30 AM

Lead article from

http://www.politicalbetting.com

It is perhaps an indication of the complete lack of PR skills of UKIP that news of the defections to the party of the two Tory peers came out on a Tuesday when there was so much other political news about that it got buried. If the party or Lord Pearson of Rannoch, and Lord Willoughby de Broke, had any nouse they would have done it on a Sunday or, found a time during the quiet news period between Christmas and the New Year.

These things need to be managed well to maximise the impact and the party’s approach looked amateurish in the extreme. What’s the point of defecting if hardly anybody notices?

Sure it got highlighted by the ideologically confused, Daily Telegraph, but for a story to have “legs” it’s got to be picked up by others parts of the media and then linked to something that is wider. Even ContinuityIDS, my name for CONHome, did not get as excited as it might have done.
Given the direction the David Cameron is taking his party the way to have hurt him would not have been on the EU issue - but on a broader pretext that managed to get a bit of “hug-a-hoodie” in as well as Polly Toynbee.

The problem of linking it to the EU is that this is an issue that for most people is as dead as a DoDo. Cameron should be wide open on the failure to deliver the pledge made during his campaign to take the party out of the European People’s Party group in the European Parliament.
It often strikes me just how lucky a politician Cameron is. He takes over the party just at a time when Labour is going through turmoil and for the past twelve months he’s been able to waltz round what should be huge mine-fields.

A lot depends now on how Gordon Brown chooses to deal with him. Can he create a policy agenda that forces more unease with Cameron on the fringes of the Tory party? This surely is the way to deal with the threat?
It will be recalled how brilliantly Tony Blair was able to undermine Michael Howard in 2004 by agreeing to a referendum on the EU Constitution - thus taking away the main plank of the Tory leader’s EU stance ahead of the 2004 Euro Elections.

My sense is that the EU does not have the potential to hurt the Tories in the way it did. We have just moved on from the EU as an issue and the Tories opponents on the right and the left need to find something else.

harryaldridge · 10-01-2007, 01:23 PM

Interesting post Tamashi. I cannot disagree with the author that the timing was odd and we did not maximise impact. I wonder what the reasons were.

eublues · 10-01-2007, 01:30 PM

You can't predict how much news there will be on a particular day with precision.

Although the story was reported online by various papers yesterday I haven't seen it in the print versions (eg today's Telegraph or Guardian).

This is despite a news conference held yesterday apparently.

Revrod · 10-01-2007, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Since 2004 EU elections we have been treading water, that was until Nigel became leader, now were moving forward with a growing momentum

While I agree the defection of 2 Peers from the Conservatives to UKIP is excellent news lets not go overboard, we have lost at least 1 branch in the SW in one of our best regions, which incidentally, was mentioned yesterday on teletext at the same time as the defection of the Peers.
If UKIP is to suceed, it needs to work from branch level upwards similar to the way the Lib-Dems (and BNP to a smaller degree) have achieved.

Moving forward with a growing momentum may be how some of you see it, but I would think the majority see it rather differently, but it is good news at last!

kernow · 10-01-2007, 06:22 PM

[quote="Revrod"]
While I agree the defection of 2 Peers from the Conservatives to UKIP is excellent news lets not go overboard, we have lost at least 1 branch in the SW in one of our best regions,quote]

Incorrect , the branch hasn't gone just some anti Nigel members. I know the pro EU media couldn't announce what they thought was the demise of the branch quickly enough, but they were wrong!

Richard Allen · 10-01-2007, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Independent UKIP

Quote:

Originally Posted by Britannist

The party should be able to get some good publicity when the two noble Peers speak.

I completely agree. The media have often quoted both Peers on various very serious issues & they have both initiated debates in Parliament on highly newsworthy issues.

The downside for them is that everything they say (and indeed do not say) in Parliament will be more scrutinised than it ever was when they were Tories or after the tory whip was withdrawn.

My very late new years resolution is that I will not criticise our new members for not doing things they weren't already doing. I will not criticise them for not voting on things they typically did not vote on before they joined UKIP. I will similarly not criticise them for not speaking in debates that they typically did not attend/speak in before they joined UKIP. They are patently both very hard working members of the Lords and I hope every UKIP supporter here and elsewhere will support them and not start moaning about them unless there is an extremely good reason to do so.

Further to this point everyone should remember that Peers are essentially volunteers. Unlike our MP's they are not paid (except for relatively modest expenses) so I don't want to see anyone brandishing around comments like 'UKIP peers attend less that half of all votes'. Also bare in mind that many Peers do not have any staff so can hardly be held to a high standard when it comes to replying to letters.

kernow · 10-01-2007, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Allen

Further to this point everyone should remember that Peers are essentially volunteers. Unlike our MP's they are not paid (except for relatively modest expenses) so I don't want to see anyone brandishing around comments like 'UKIP peers attend less that half of all votes'. Also bare in mind that many Peers do not have any staff so can hardly be held to a high standard when it comes to replying to letters.

I'm pleased you pointed these things out and I hope I'm not the only person on this forum to take note!

MarkR · 11-01-2007, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eublues

Although the story was reported online by various papers yesterday I haven't seen it in the print versions (eg today's Telegraph or Guardian).

This is despite a news conference held yesterday apparently.

It was in the Telegraph, page 2 little column top right.

10-01-2007, 10:23 AM	#51 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 32,078 Party: Libertarian Party	I don't think it will hurt to see the full on EU pressure group people form their own thing. Britian needs both at the moment, not some mish mash all in one job. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Lib Dems

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10-01-2007, 11:30 AM	#53 (permalink)
tamashi Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 523	Lead article from http://www.politicalbetting.com It is perhaps an indication of the complete lack of PR skills of UKIP that news of the defections to the party of the two Tory peers came out on a Tuesday when there was so much other political news about that it got buried. If the party or Lord Pearson of Rannoch, and Lord Willoughby de Broke, had any nouse they would have done it on a Sunday or, found a time during the quiet news period between Christmas and the New Year. These things need to be managed well to maximise the impact and the party’s approach looked amateurish in the extreme. What’s the point of defecting if hardly anybody notices? Sure it got highlighted by the ideologically confused, Daily Telegraph, but for a story to have “legs” it’s got to be picked up by others parts of the media and then linked to something that is wider. Even ContinuityIDS, my name for CONHome, did not get as excited as it might have done. Given the direction the David Cameron is taking his party the way to have hurt him would not have been on the EU issue - but on a broader pretext that managed to get a bit of “hug-a-hoodie” in as well as Polly Toynbee. The problem of linking it to the EU is that this is an issue that for most people is as dead as a DoDo. Cameron should be wide open on the failure to deliver the pledge made during his campaign to take the party out of the European People’s Party group in the European Parliament. It often strikes me just how lucky a politician Cameron is. He takes over the party just at a time when Labour is going through turmoil and for the past twelve months he’s been able to waltz round what should be huge mine-fields. A lot depends now on how Gordon Brown chooses to deal with him. Can he create a policy agenda that forces more unease with Cameron on the fringes of the Tory party? This surely is the way to deal with the threat? It will be recalled how brilliantly Tony Blair was able to undermine Michael Howard in 2004 by agreeing to a referendum on the EU Constitution - thus taking away the main plank of the Tory leader’s EU stance ahead of the 2004 Euro Elections. My sense is that the EU does not have the potential to hurt the Tories in the way it did. We have just moved on from the EU as an issue and the Tories opponents on the right and the left need to find something else.

10-01-2007, 01:23 PM	#54 (permalink)
harryaldridge Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: West Sussex Posts: 1,912	Interesting post Tamashi. I cannot disagree with the author that the timing was odd and we did not maximise impact. I wonder what the reasons were.

10-01-2007, 01:30 PM	#55 (permalink)
eublues Uber Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,194	You can't predict how much news there will be on a particular day with precision. Although the story was reported online by various papers yesterday I haven't seen it in the print versions (eg today's Telegraph or Guardian). This is despite a news conference held yesterday apparently.

10-01-2007, 06:22 PM	#57 (permalink)
kernow Uber Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 5,288	[quote="Revrod"] While I agree the defection of 2 Peers from the Conservatives to UKIP is excellent news lets not go overboard, we have lost at least 1 branch in the SW in one of our best regions,quote] Incorrect , the branch hasn't gone just some anti Nigel members. I know the pro EU media couldn't announce what they thought was the demise of the branch quickly enough, but they were wrong!