'Tories driven into arms of UKIP'

Britannist · 09-12-2006, 04:47 AM

A big debate on 'Tories driven into the arms of UKIP' - the largest about UKIP yet held at Conservative Home - is well under way and can be accessed through:

http://conservativehome.blogs.com/to...is_somewh.html

Deep Purple · 09-12-2006, 09:54 AM

The "reformers" seem to be showing all the typical intolerant traits of cultural Marxism, even suggesting that "doubts" about certain trendy issues are not to be allowed... thought control indeed.

Clearly they are quite prepared to see more members leave and would actually welcome it! They don't seem to realise that many of the disaffected members are people who actually do things rather than pontificate in coffee bars.

The Tory party has sold itself out so hopefully (for the long-term health of this nation) they'll reap what they are sowing in terms of activist meltdown.

claire stone · 09-12-2006, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deep Purple

The "reformers" seem to be showing all the typical intolerant traits of cultural Marxism, even suggesting that "doubts" about certain trendy issues are not to be allowed... thought control indeed.

Clearly they are quite prepared to see more members leave and would actually welcome it! They don't seem to realise that many of the disaffected members are people who actually do things rather than pontificate in coffee bars.

The Tory party has sold itself out so hopefully (for the long-term health of this nation) they'll reap what they are sowing in terms of activist meltdown.

Yes, but after the result in Horsham, the tories will be able to explain away defections as "a case of rats joining a sinking ship"!
How do we get round that?

Tom Wilde · 09-12-2006, 02:46 PM

Are you serious? The big parties fight local council byelections all the time - they win some, they lose some, and nobody loses sleep over any given result. If anyone in the Tory Party said "Don't join UKIP, cos they did badly in a local council byelection in Horsham this week." then his hearers would laugh so much they'd spill their cappucinos.

brian lee · 09-12-2006, 09:30 PM

I wonder how much the defectors from the Tories to UKIP know about the Party. If they have just been listening to Nigel's rhetoric they will be sadly disappointed.

Nigel is like a salesman selling dolls. He will tell you they are the best. They have real hair that doesn't come out, close their eyes when you lie them down, and say 'mama' when you squeeze them.

Unfortunately, the factory doesn't have the capacity to produce them. All it can produce are a few cloth dolls with hair and faces painted on and stuffed with crumpled up betting slips.

Britannist · 09-12-2006, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Wilde

Are you serious? The big parties fight local council byelections all the time - they win some, they lose some, and nobody loses sleep over any given result. If anyone in the Tory Party said "Don't join UKIP, cos they did badly in a local council byelection in Horsham this week." then his hearers would laugh so much they'd spill their cappucinos.

According to someone called Gunther – who posted to the Conservative Home website yesterday at 10.18 am – the result of the Kentish Town (inner north London) local By-Election earlier this week was: Liberal Dim Party 1093. Green 812. Labour 808. Conservatives 198. So, UKIP did not do well in the Horsham local council By-Election on 7.12.2006 – but the Conservatives got a very low vote the same day at Kentish Town.

Indeed, the Kentish Town result does rather make it look as if David Cameron's strategy of describing himself as a 'liberal Conservative' is just making people vote for the europhile Liberal Dims.

Apparently the Conservative candidate in the Kentish Town local By-Election is also on the shortlist to be the Conservative candidate at the next General Election against the Labour MP for Hampstead and Highgate (Glenda Jackson).

claire stone · 10-12-2006, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Wilde

Are you serious? The big parties fight local council byelections all the time - they win some, they lose some, and nobody loses sleep over any given result. If anyone in the Tory Party said "Don't join UKIP, cos they did badly in a local council byelection in Horsham this week." then his hearers would laugh so much they'd spill their cappucinos.

Unfortunately it's not just Horsham is it? This was supposed to be one of our better areas and expectations were high - as you your self posted. Now it's seems to be just another result which happened to go bad.

mkpdavies · 10-12-2006, 01:25 PM

Wrong. UKIP have had better results of late, getting seconds and thirds in areas they never have before. UKIP have been (and still are in most areas) hopeless at local elections. It's begining to change slowly is a growing amount of areas.

IF (big if) organisation measures are put in, combined with the now increasing membership and much better media coverage, then UKIP have a good chance of starting to make real progress where they have been useless since the start.

This result was actualy a bit of a throwback, but the two man effort in a Tory vs Libe Dem slugfest area is not overly suprising. I think the branch were foolish not putting in a real effort, but they have their strategy to save it for next year, so we'll have to judge them on that then.

One thing is for sure, is UKIP are doing something right. The Tories are crapping themselves, issuing attacks and the Nazis are almost becoming obssesed with UKIP.

Even trolls who come here aren't fooling anyone.

The big concern for me, is UKIP could get all these new members and build a bigger profile nationaly, but then not have the organisation to retain, utilise and grow the foundations of funding much further.

We shall see.

Populist Lee · 10-12-2006, 01:36 PM

UKIP have until June 2009 to prove the *pundits* wrong.
Failure to trounce the Tories then will mean the Last Rites will be read shortly thereafter.

Two years and seven months.
Get your Act together now, or it will be Curtains.

mkpdavies · 10-12-2006, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Populist Lee

UKIP have until June 2009 to prove the *pundits* wrong.
Failure to trounce the Tories then will mean the Last Rites will be read shortly thereafter.

Two years and seven months.
Get your Act together now, or it will be Curtains.

That assumes the Troika will initiate total lock down after that election.

Sadly, with the funding of parties looking like a stitch up, I wouldn't bet against that. But it isn't just UKIP that has to get it's act together, it is everyone.

09-12-2006, 04:47 AM	#1 (permalink)
Britannist Uber Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: London Posts: 22,896	'Tories driven into arms of UKIP' - big debate under way A big debate on 'Tories driven into the arms of UKIP' - the largest about UKIP yet held at Conservative Home - is well under way and can be accessed through: http://conservativehome.blogs.com/to...is_somewh.html

10-12-2006, 01:25 PM	#8 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 31,053 Party: Libertarian Party	Wrong. UKIP have had better results of late, getting seconds and thirds in areas they never have before. UKIP have been (and still are in most areas) hopeless at local elections. It's begining to change slowly is a growing amount of areas. IF (big if) organisation measures are put in, combined with the now increasing membership and much better media coverage, then UKIP have a good chance of starting to make real progress where they have been useless since the start. This result was actualy a bit of a throwback, but the two man effort in a Tory vs Libe Dem slugfest area is not overly suprising. I think the branch were foolish not putting in a real effort, but they have their strategy to save it for next year, so we'll have to judge them on that then. One thing is for sure, is UKIP are doing something right. The Tories are crapping themselves, issuing attacks and the Nazis are almost becoming obssesed with UKIP. Even trolls who come here aren't fooling anyone. The big concern for me, is UKIP could get all these new members and build a bigger profile nationaly, but then not have the organisation to retain, utilise and grow the foundations of funding much further. We shall see. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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09-12-2006, 09:54 AM	#2 (permalink)
Deep Purple Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 129	The "reformers" seem to be showing all the typical intolerant traits of cultural Marxism, even suggesting that "doubts" about certain trendy issues are not to be allowed... thought control indeed. Clearly they are quite prepared to see more members leave and would actually welcome it! They don't seem to realise that many of the disaffected members are people who actually do things rather than pontificate in coffee bars. The Tory party has sold itself out so hopefully (for the long-term health of this nation) they'll reap what they are sowing in terms of activist meltdown.

09-12-2006, 02:46 PM	#4 (permalink)
Tom Wilde Moderator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: London. Posts: 2,911	Are you serious? The big parties fight local council byelections all the time - they win some, they lose some, and nobody loses sleep over any given result. If anyone in the Tory Party said "Don't join UKIP, cos they did badly in a local council byelection in Horsham this week." then his hearers would laugh so much they'd spill their cappucinos.

09-12-2006, 09:30 PM	#5 (permalink)
brian lee Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: South Essex Posts: 613	I wonder how much the defectors from the Tories to UKIP know about the Party. If they have just been listening to Nigel's rhetoric they will be sadly disappointed. Nigel is like a salesman selling dolls. He will tell you they are the best. They have real hair that doesn't come out, close their eyes when you lie them down, and say 'mama' when you squeeze them. Unfortunately, the factory doesn't have the capacity to produce them. All it can produce are a few cloth dolls with hair and faces painted on and stuffed with crumpled up betting slips.

10-12-2006, 01:36 PM	#9 (permalink)
Populist Lee Uber Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 2,242 Party: Other	UKIP have until June 2009 to prove the pundits wrong. Failure to trounce the Tories then will mean the Last Rites will be read shortly thereafter. Two years and seven months. Get your Act together now, or it will be Curtains.