UKIP former Gosport Chairman joins LibDems

This-England · 09-12-2006, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

Orange book liberals are much more sensible, classical liberals in the true sense.

They should be joining UKIP if anything.

UKIP is very much a Classical Liberal organisation at the top.
Very few if any Real Conservatives among you lot.

mkpdavies · 09-12-2006, 01:30 PM

I've never been a Conservative, so that's hardly an insult to me.

This-England · 09-12-2006, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

I've never been a Conservative, so that's hardly an insult to me.

It's not meant to be an insult im just looking into what UKIP is about.
Ive asked a few people here and most seem to be Libertarians.
If you want a model for your party you should look to the Norweigen Progress Party the second biggest party in Norway.
http://english.frp.no/Innhold/FrP/Te...he_Principles/

Its a Classical Liberal party.

Tom Wilde · 09-12-2006, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

Orange book liberals are much more sensible, classical liberals in the true sense.

They should be joining UKIP if anything.

I agree they sound much more like classical liberals on many issues. What do they say about the EU, though?

kernow · 09-12-2006, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Wilde

I agree they sound much more like classical liberals on many issues. What do they say about the EU, though?

The "old Liberal Party to the best of my knowledge was and is anti-EU! The Liberal Democrats on the other hand are a "Mongrel breed" who are the result of a mix of old Labour and old Liberal combining the worst of both breeds!

SponPlague · 09-12-2006, 06:11 PM

The SDP were co-founded by Woy Jenkins, who was a president of the commission - you don't get more pro-EU than that... :twisted:

Mikeuk · 09-12-2006, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by This-England

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

Orange book liberals are much more sensible, classical liberals in the true sense.

They should be joining UKIP if anything.

UKIP is very much a Classical Liberal organisation at the top.
Very few if any Real Conservatives among you lot.

There are a very large number of ex-Conservatives in UKIP. Nigel Farage is one for a start and so am I.

Contributors on this forum do seem to be titled towards the liberal wing of UKIP but a lot of the ex-Tories probably wouldn't be interested in an internet forum, anyway.

Internationalist · 09-12-2006, 06:45 PM

Excerpts from the David Laws item about the Orange Book:

Quote:

I also believe that many liberals and Liberal Democrats will recognise the truth of Nick Clegg’s warning that our policy on Europe must be firmly based on a vision of a decentralised and genuinely liberal European Union. This means some existing EU powers (agriculture, social policy and regional policy) being devolved back to nation states, while we expand the role of the EU in genuinely international issues.

A decentralised and genuinely liberal European Union would not be the EU we have today, or anything like it. How are they going to bring it about?

Quote:

I have heard people inside and outside the Liberal Democrats refer to Vince and to me as ‘economic liberals’ or ‘Gladstonian liberals’. If this means merely turning the clock back to 1880, to a liberalism of free trade, a moralist foreign policy and freedom from state interference, then this is not what I stand for or what I understand Vince to stand for.

Actually that sounds quite good - but it is not what they stand for, as David Laws says.

Quote:

By the end of the nineteenth century the ‘Gladstonian Liberal’ cupboard was indeed looking decidedly bare, having little to offer both in relation to expanding political liberalism and to the emerging strand of social liberalism.

By social liberalism, I mean the insight that freedom from oppression is not by itself enough to deliver any meaningful sense of liberty. I mean the increasing conviction among Liberals at the turn of the 19th century into the 20th that access to high quality education, housing, pensions and health provision is as important – perhaps far more important to many citizens – than freedom from religious oppression or meddling home secretaries.

So public sector socialism is part of their agenda, but they have a bit more sense than most of the LibDems on how to run the economy.

The Orange Book Liberal Democrats are better than most in their party and do have some elements of economic liberalism but they are not Classical Liberals in the sense that I would understand it.

Nor is the "old" Liberal party, which although it is anti-EU seems strangely keen on some sort of "World Authority" and buys into all of the social justice agenda (for which read: more socialism).

The Gladstonian liberalism to which David Laws refers (but rejects) - "free trade, a moralist foreign policy and freedom from state interference" - sounds OK to me. It has nothing to do with today's Liberal Democrat party.

Mikeuk · 09-12-2006, 06:47 PM

I was about to add the following.

Quote:

Contributors on this forum do seem to be tilted towards the liberal wing of UKIP but a lot of the older ex-Tories probably wouldn't be interested in an internet forum, anyway.

Aardvark, Britannist and Bluemerle are ex-Tories. Can't think of any others off-hand.

Hartlepool · 09-12-2006, 07:07 PM

I was for 40 years or more,I'm about four years with UKIP now, I have never made a better or more timely move in my life.

09-12-2006, 01:30 PM	#22 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 31,053 Party: Libertarian Party	I've never been a Conservative, so that's hardly an insult to me. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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09-12-2006, 06:11 PM	#26 (permalink)
SponPlague Uber Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Zurich Posts: 3,123	The SDP were co-founded by Woy Jenkins, who was a president of the commission - you don't get more pro-EU than that... :twisted:

09-12-2006, 07:07 PM	#30 (permalink)
Hartlepool Uber Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: North East England Posts: 6,814 Party: Popular Democrats	I was for 40 years or more,I'm about four years with UKIP now, I have never made a better or more timely move in my life.