Marcus Stead quits UKIP

kernow · 24-11-2006, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by devilskitchen

Dear Marcus,

Why, exactly, did you post the letter here? What was the point? And when did it ever become accepted policy to post private correspondance on a public forum?

I agree 100%!

SponPlague · 24-11-2006, 01:28 PM

If you must post, why not use the ind-uk ukip members only discussion group?

mkpdavies · 24-11-2006, 01:37 PM

One members reasons for leaving. Big deal, why does everyone get so upset, it's almost like a cult like attitude.

Personally I need to see the alternative before I throw a match down on leaving and unless you are a racist/fascist piece of scum, there isn't any really.

Anthony Butcher · 24-11-2006, 01:50 PM

This is a discussion forum of which Marcus is a member. If he quits his party, then that is a discussion point. Presumably most people will want to know why he has left the party. Attacking him for posting his reasons is just sheer tribalism and self-interest.

If he had left the Tory party would you be decrying him for printing his letter? Of course not. Is there some unwritten law that people leaving political parties shouldn't publish their reasons for doing so? Or is it just that it is an inconvenience for those who choose to remain in?

He is leaving UKIP, so why would he care if it is damaged by his letter or not? In fact, if he believes that UKIP is a hindrance to the anti-EU movement (as many believe), then surely he almost has an obligation to denounce it?

It is a massive step for people to leave a political party they have put so much into. Rather than attacking the individual, which seems all too common in UKIP, why not look at his reasons and work out what it would take to win him back?

Wouldn't it be better to say "sorry you are leaving Marcus. Clearly we have failed to meet your expectations and we hope to do better in the future. We would appreciate a detailed appraisal of what you think went wrong so that we can ensure that it doesn't happen again"?

Or is it easier to label him as yet another 'troublemaker' just out to damage the party?

As Petrina said at the Bristol Conference "Let's all try to be nicer to each other please".

mkpdavies · 24-11-2006, 01:53 PM

Or couse there is the possibility that he was a troublemaker too.

Dignified silence and some internal checks would be the best reaction to these sorts of things for me.

kernow · 24-11-2006, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony Butcher

He is leaving UKIP, so why would he care if it is damaged by his letter or not?

Surely he could have written to UKIPs leadership in a private letter stating his reasons for leaving, instead he chose to "go public" on this forum trying to do as much damage to UKIP as possible, tearing down all the hard work many thousands of UKIP activists have and are still putting into the party. His letter won't harm the UKIP hierarchy, all it will do is make it harder for activists to get the anti EU message across to "Joe public"!!

Hartlepool · 24-11-2006, 03:00 PM

I THINK THAT HIS LETTER MAY ALREADY HAVE DAMAGED THE PARTY AND MAY EVEN CAUSE IT TROUBLE.

We will see,however.

Are we to completely disregard what he has written on here, or are we to give our own impressions on what his letter says to us,and try to come up with a reason for it on here?

Myself,I prefer to ignore it completely because I see it as more bitterness from the domain of the sore losers who insist on posting here even after dumping the Party and it's Members.

The same Members who are continuing to support UKIP,regardless of who won the Leadership election or who they themselves voted for.

Real Members of UKIP.

Anthony Butcher · 24-11-2006, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kernow

Surely he could have written to UKIPs leadership in a private letter stating his reasons for leaving, instead he chose to "go public" on this forum trying to do as much damage to UKIP as possible, tearing down all the hard work many thousands of UKIP activists have and are still putting into the party. His letter won't harm the UKIP hierarchy, all it will do is make it harder for activists to get the anti EU message across to "Joe public"!!

You are missing the point of it slightly. Obviously I can't speak directly for Marcus, but he is saying that UKIP is part of the problem. In other words all those hours that you and others are putting in under the UKIP banner are potentially damaging the anti-EU cause, not assisting it. Obviously you are very well intentioned, that isn't under question, but I, and many others, believe that you are assisting the EU and promoting a corrupt party into public office.

Let's remember that the real problem is not the EU, it is the British politicians who keep us in it. Marcus, presumably, feels that UKIP isn't offering anything different. Indeed my own experiences towards the upper end of the party led me to firmly believe that UKIP is democratically corrupt and isn't a better alternative to the big three.

prober · 24-11-2006, 03:36 PM

Anothy has it right. This is yet another loss of a needed person , all for similar reasons. It is disturbing that some are more concerned to head in sand attack the messenger rather than face the issues they raise. The reality is that many of us gritting our teeth, putting the nastiness in the past, and getting on with it and holding things together on promises: but have grave doubts that the present regime can will and wants to to deliver on the necessity to productively pull members and their ideas together and dramatically transform UKIP to make it electable and/or something the public have respect for ( and even like !), so branches have something to relate to. Time is drifting on, but we hope hope hope it will happen. Fingers crossed.

kernow · 24-11-2006, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony Butcher

Indeed my own experiences towards the upper end of the party led me to firmly believe that UKIP is democratically corrupt and isn't a better alternative to the big three.

So in your opinion, what is the alternative?

24-11-2006, 01:37 PM	#33 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 32,078 Party: Libertarian Party	One members reasons for leaving. Big deal, why does everyone get so upset, it's almost like a cult like attitude. Personally I need to see the alternative before I throw a match down on leaving and unless you are a racist/fascist piece of scum, there isn't any really. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Lib Dems

24-11-2006, 01:53 PM	#35 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 32,078 Party: Libertarian Party	Or couse there is the possibility that he was a troublemaker too. Dignified silence and some internal checks would be the best reaction to these sorts of things for me. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Lib Dems

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24-11-2006, 01:28 PM	#32 (permalink)
SponPlague Uber Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Zurich Posts: 3,401	If you must post, why not use the ind-uk ukip members only discussion group?

24-11-2006, 01:50 PM	#34 (permalink)
Anthony Butcher Administrator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Long Ashton, Bristol Posts: 10,315 Party: None	This is a discussion forum of which Marcus is a member. If he quits his party, then that is a discussion point. Presumably most people will want to know why he has left the party. Attacking him for posting his reasons is just sheer tribalism and self-interest. If he had left the Tory party would you be decrying him for printing his letter? Of course not. Is there some unwritten law that people leaving political parties shouldn't publish their reasons for doing so? Or is it just that it is an inconvenience for those who choose to remain in? He is leaving UKIP, so why would he care if it is damaged by his letter or not? In fact, if he believes that UKIP is a hindrance to the anti-EU movement (as many believe), then surely he almost has an obligation to denounce it? It is a massive step for people to leave a political party they have put so much into. Rather than attacking the individual, which seems all too common in UKIP, why not look at his reasons and work out what it would take to win him back? Wouldn't it be better to say "sorry you are leaving Marcus. Clearly we have failed to meet your expectations and we hope to do better in the future. We would appreciate a detailed appraisal of what you think went wrong so that we can ensure that it doesn't happen again"? Or is it easier to label him as yet another 'troublemaker' just out to damage the party? As Petrina said at the Bristol Conference "Let's all try to be nicer to each other please".

24-11-2006, 03:00 PM	#37 (permalink)
Hartlepool Uber Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Northern England Posts: 7,105 Party: Free England Party	I THINK THAT HIS LETTER MAY ALREADY HAVE DAMAGED THE PARTY AND MAY EVEN CAUSE IT TROUBLE. We will see,however. Are we to completely disregard what he has written on here, or are we to give our own impressions on what his letter says to us,and try to come up with a reason for it on here? Myself,I prefer to ignore it completely because I see it as more bitterness from the domain of the sore losers who insist on posting here even after dumping the Party and it's Members. The same Members who are continuing to support UKIP,regardless of who won the Leadership election or who they themselves voted for. Real Members of UKIP.

24-11-2006, 03:36 PM	#39 (permalink)
prober Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 860	Anothy has it right. This is yet another loss of a needed person , all for similar reasons. It is disturbing that some are more concerned to head in sand attack the messenger rather than face the issues they raise. The reality is that many of us gritting our teeth, putting the nastiness in the past, and getting on with it and holding things together on promises: but have grave doubts that the present regime can will and wants to to deliver on the necessity to productively pull members and their ideas together and dramatically transform UKIP to make it electable and/or something the public have respect for ( and even like !), so branches have something to relate to. Time is drifting on, but we hope hope hope it will happen. Fingers crossed.