SponPlague

The constitution says there should be a pool of 10 members. I gather something like 16 were approved by the business meet. So the NEC will presumably have to whittle that down to 10?

Simon Muir

It is not appropriate for an elected UKIP public office holder, nor any paid employees of the party (or of elected officials), to be on the discipline committee. The chairman of individual panels should NOT be the party secretary either, but drawn by lot from the pool of committee members, as/when each complaint arises (and that chairman should see the matter through from beginning to end). It's not science, rocket or otherwise, but it might just be a start in putting the party on the right road.

The entire point of the discipline committee was that it was independent of the party leadership, not something to replace the Stazi.

Furthermore, whatever you think about the guilt or innocence of Tom Wise over expenses claims, the obvious and sensible thing for the party to do would have been to hold a discipline committee inquiry into the whole matter, to resolve it one way or the other. Mr.Wise standing for the committee sends a clear message (and IMHO another quite unnecessary stick to beat the leadership with), that the party prefers cover-up to transparency and clean hands. It seems that UKIP's leadership can't see a banana skin anywhere without rushing to slip on it. Wise (and any other elected/paid) party officials should immediately withdraw their applications to join the discipline committee.

After Tuesday's debacle, how Mr. Denny has the brass neck to raise his head above the parapet (elsewhere on this forum) I can't imagine. The only thing that's appropriate now is a humble public apology from Batten, Clark and Denny to those who attended Bermondsey with the intention of seeing justice done. Don't forget either that two out of the 'three stooges' are paid from the public purse!

Nigel is known to be keen to re-brand UKIP. We've already got the Monster Raving Loonies, so I have a new slogan for him:

• UKIP: the bl--dy stupid party.

I'm sorry, but knowing what I now know about current discipline committee proceedings, I am utterly disgusted.

douglas denny

You know nothing.

...... full of sound and fury ........ signifying ...... NOTHING!

DED

HarryUKIP

So what really happened then DED? Did you really call a meeting without having control of the entrance doors? Did you really not ensure that enough representatives were present at a disciplinary meeting?

Or is this one of those farces with a Manuel character saying "you know nahting Mr Fawlty".

If it looks like a shambles, then maybe it is?

Simon Muir

(to DD)

So when are you going to apologise to the the three branch chairmen you left sitting on a wall outside UKIP offices?

When are you going to apologise for your own amazing rudeness (and even if you actually didn't, you clearly thought you held office at the time)?

When are you ever going to do the right thing, so that people looking on might believe that UKIP is anything more than a bunch of self-serving wannabe politicians?

I've seen the correspondence elsewhere about physical stature. I want no part of it, except to say this: without a doubt, the very best manger I ever worked for was less than five feet tall. Before a stellar career in the computer industry he'd been a major in the bomb disposal squad (the officers did the defusals), and was not just the bravest, but the brightest (and wittiest) manager I worked for.

Smallness is actually a state of mind.

__________________
Macduff, becoming tired of tomfoolery, flung his sword aside, and seizing hold of McGonagall, brought the sublime tragedy of Macbeth to a close in a rather undnigified way, by taking the feet from under the principal character. (review, Dundee 1858)

douglas denny

Well here is something to keep you interested - but without saying anything about the proceedings at all -

I have just received a missive from the indignant 'schoolmarm' telling me what a naughty little boy I am. Since she has sent it very publicly to all sorts of journalists, I leave it to you to decide if it is likely to damage the party, and if that was her intention or not, (I know what I think about that) I can note, however she has been doing so inadvertantly or otherwise (I do not know), since she left the NEC (which was you remember of her own volition and quite unecessary). What is it about a woman scorned that they turn so viciously?

Why people like her (and others who I could name but cannot at the moment) don't simply leave the party I do not know. If they find it so repulsive an organisation why the Hell don't they just push-off! and go back to their other roots which is, in her case, the Tories. Or is that it? - assisting the Tories is the game afoot now?
To associate oneself with non-members who are clearly against UKIP, and attacking the heigherarchy is a mystery to me.
I also note the pompous use of letters after her name to lend credibility to what appears to me to be a deliberate attempt to publicise 'little local difficulties' something which is really a minor case of little interest except to those concerned within UKIP. Why bother? if it is likely to cause damage?

As she has made her response so public - here is mine on a public platform too, as I believe publicity is a good thing too - it clears the air ......... so lets have some clearing ......

(With letters I used to use once for the fun of it too. Why do people do that? answer - to impress and bamboozle people into thinking they are or might be "clever" - but know quite well underneath they are not!).

Douglas Denny. BSc. (Hons); FBOA; FCOpt; C.Eng; MInst MC; MRIN.
Chartered Engineer. Optometrist. dart player, occasional beer drinker and all-round good guy!

=================================

COPY:-


Petrina,

Just who the Hell do you think you are to tell me who to talk to or not?

I have always found your sanctimonious, po-faced posturing obnoxious. Typical busybody!
Why don't you mind your own business in what is a jocular exchange between two friends.

The real reason for the exchange with Mr. Watkins - besides the inevitable hilarity - was contained in the apology to various people as follows:-

I do regret a lot of people travelled a long way for little gain in the purpose of the business at hand - but you should know by now, that is often the case with these kind of things.

Further: I consider it absolutely outrageous for an ex-chairman of the NEC to be associating with a non-member who is clearly vexatious to the party and who the very day before the disciplinary meeting published the missive below accusing the very committee members themselves of:-


Just imagine any serious organisation that would have 19 applicants for the disciplinary council immediately after the party accountant has said he can not vouch for the accounts before he arrived and who personally advocates a good forensic accountant is hired implying false accounting, fraud, embezelment and theft may have occurred I understand! Amongst the 19 I can identify serial liars, serial liquidationers, an individual who has boasted to a public meeting how he defrauds the EU, a liar who has failed to clear UKIP’s name of his fraud, an individual unable to dispel clear allegations of embezelment – these nebbishes are UKIP’s proposed Disciplinary Committee members – but you don’t care!


..............So don't come over all high and mighty with me Mrs. Holdsworth. Before you start casting stones look to yourself !!

Douglas.



----- Original Message -----
From: Petrina Voelcker
To: glanceback ; 'Douglas Denny' ; CLARK MEP Derek ; Gerard BATTEN MEP UKIP
Cc: EUroRealist - What IS Britain's Exit & Survival Strategy? List ; Andrew.Marr@BBC.co.UK ; Peter.Hitchens@MailOnSunday.co.UK ; 'Daniel FOGGO' ; BAKER Peter & Marrietta
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 9:09 AM
Subject: Re: Peter Baker's show trial reduced to farce


This sort of exchange only serves to bring UKIP and the disciplinary process into disrepute .I hope that for the sake of all involved we are not treated to any more of these childish exchanges and that the disciplinary process can be allowed to proceed in a professional manner once the new Party Secretary taken office.

Petrina Holdsworth ( LLB,Barrister )

----- Original Message -----
From: glanceback
To: 'Douglas Denny' ; CLARK MEP Derek ; Gerard BATTEN MEP UKIP
Cc: EUroRealist - What IS Britain's Exit & Survival Strategy? List ; Andrew.Marr@BBC.co.UK ; Peter.Hitchens@MailOnSunday.co.UK ; 'Daniel FOGGO' ; BAKER Peter & Marrietta ; HOLDSWORTH Petrina
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 1:05 AM
Subject: RE: Peter Baker's show trial reduced to farce


Denny,


Yet again: How do you justify your foolish little letter posturing, below as UKIP Party Secretary and Chairman of UKIP farcical Disciplinary Committee – yet again you bring UKIP, the offices you unfortunately and inefficiently hold and yourself into disrepute.



You again prove what a silly little man you are – you send me an eMail by me with no mention of ‘little’ you conveniently overlook the fact that I had already explained how I had always called you a silly little man based on your endless pedantic irrelevant posturing and your small mindedness.

That you are so obsessed with your size is just not relevant and it was not I that pointed out you were wearing high heels it was one of the ladies present – I had not even bothered looking at you much as I am aware of your relative irrelevance. I was surprised at how much older you were than I had thought but your web photos were clearly of you either many years ago with a wig and makeup or much younger!

I have no hang up whatsoever over your diminutive size it worries me not, it is like you insignificant. You must try belatedly to over come this chip on your shoulder. You are just a very silly little man. So very damaging to EUroRealism and my Country as you posture endlessly to prop up the corrupt amongst the leadership of UKIP that have so damaged EUroRealism. Useless little men propping each other up for mutual personal gain at the expense of UKIP, its members and the liberty of these United Kingdoms.

For the record my height (in socks as I do not wear stockings) when I entered Sandhurst was 6ft. 1/2inch. Due to two smashed vertebrae one in military action and the other in a serious climbing accident when I was leading a rescue in the Bernese Oberland reduced my height below 6feet and due to my cancer and major surgery my height is now reduced to around 5ft.10ish. though for lack of stomach muscles due to surgery and MRSA I find it hard to stand up straight and the scoliosis due to denervation and the herniation of the wound may mislead you – since you are so obsessed in a petty little way and although my fit weight was just over 13 stone I now run at about 14 stone I think due again to hospital damage which also predicates my clothing and lack of sleep.

Since again you have shown yourself to be little more than a fool I suggest you keep silent until you are finally dumped from UKIP which surely must be inevitable after the shameful behaviour you, Clark & Batten orchestrated in the back streets of Bermondsey on Tuesday. Even in consideration of the unarguable corruption of leadership this must be seen as a public denigration of UKIP that can not surely be ignored.

As to your acting as a procurer for the idiotic posturing Batten and soliciting a meeting in a toilet, which I declined, perhaps the clarity of your proposition leaves something to be desired as it was commented on by the ladies present as deeply inappropriate. I do not recall having responded to his childish and insecure remark in an eMail, though I am open to correction as I had thought I copied it from UKIPForum in an article by Simon Muir after he had spoken to several others who were witness to your idiocy and incompetence.

Any organisation of any integrity or probity would already have suspended you Batten and Clark for your general incompetence, duplicity and bringing UKIP into such undeniable disrepute.

Please try not to further damage UKIP with comments unless you seek to strengthen our only current lifeboat by removing the corrupt and damaging leadership who yet again have proved themselves incompetent, petty minded, disorganised, corrupt and self interested.

G. Lance-Watkins



-----Original Message-----
From: Douglas Denny [mailtoouglas.denny@btopenworld.com]
Sent: 11 October 2006 23:16
To: Watkins Greg Lance; glanceback
Subject: Re: Peter Baker's show trial reduced to farce



Greg,



It was interesting to meet you for the first time.

Amazing how an instant deeper understanding can come from a 'glance' (pardon the pun) at the person in the flesh.

I am sorry not to have been able to talk to you more closely and try to understand (for my own curiosities sake) your vitriol for UKIP's heirarchy who are trying so hard to free the British people from the yoke of the EU monster.

I DO understand one thing now though which I wondered about before .... your obsession about HEIGHT.

Everyone is "little" in your description of them if you do not like them. I have noticed this for years and wondered why.

Now I know.

I even come in for special consideration in our first meeting, of the height of the soles of my boots ... "high heels" you call them! (the connotations with feminine shoeware being an interesting take on your distorted observation - as in fact they look very closely like highly polished army boots - something you should recognise instantly); they actually have a heel size of exactly 1 and 1/4 inches in fact (or 33 mm. if you prefer Froggie measure).

As for the obsession - What have you written in this missive itself but:- "....grubby little peoploe ...."

And in another publication today on the 11 Oct (that's four today .. you must be feeling a bit wound-up or something) :-

" ....the foolish little Douglas Denny ......" "...silly little man..." "...small minded..." "...little Denny (high heels or not) ..." "...little Batten...."

"...little Denny’s..." "...little Batten’s...." "....this foolish little man...." "...little man..."

That's nine references to being vertically challenged. There has to be something in this! ...says I to myself! AND THERE IS.

I discovered what it was when I saw you .... YOU ARE A LITTLE MAN YOURSELF !!

We were, it is true, ten feet apart, but I reckon in my stocking feet I can look you eye to eye - or pretty damn close to it.

I am 5' 8" in my stocking feet ........ so what are you old boy? Do tell.
==========

Without mentioning anything to do with the proceedings themselves..... I will say .....

I do regret a lot of people travelled a long way for little gain in the purpose of the business at hand - but you should know by now, that is often the case with these kind of things.

They do not always proceed with straightforward means to the end result immediately. The preliminaries have to be got through first before the substantive work can be done and the questions raised and answered. Be assured it will go ahead to a fair and proper conclusion in due course of events.

I can also assure you the questions will be raised and answered in due course with correct due procedure.

Sincerely yours,

Douglas Denny.

By the way, the quote is (to be correct as you clearly misheard it ) ...might as well get it right .......

"What! NO way! The only place I would expect GLW to be having meetings is in a toilet - and certainly will NOT allow him into my property under any circumstances".

That was 30 minutes before.

DED.


----- Original Message -----
From: glanceback
To: EUroRealist - What IS Britain's Exit & Survival Strategy? List
Cc: Andrew.Marr@BBC.co.UK ; 'Daniel FOGGO' ; Peter.Hitchens@MailOnSunday.co.UK ; Jo KNOWSLEY
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 8:00 PM

Subject: Peter Baker's show trial reduced to farce

----------------------------------------------
PLEASE REPLY TO: GLW

Hi,
Don’t Shoot The Messengers!

It would seem that the dishonesty and corruption at the top of UKIP and the damage done by Farage over the years has guaranteed that UKIP is now a spent force – to missquote Monty Python: ‘It is dead, it is a dead party, it is without life, it is no more’.

It looks very much as if Richard Suchorzewski was right UKIP like Fish Rots from The Head!

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with UKIP itself it is just that it has been destroyed as an effective force and the genuine hard working committed grass roots members have been betrayed by the unarguably corrupt leadership. Clearly the leadership have such a tight hold on the money and life style they want that the membership is totally ignored UKIP is finished not because of its members but it has rotted from the head down – just look at the facts and the way they behave!

That Derek Clark UKIP MEP; Douglas Denny ex UKIP Secretary + 3 members of a so called Disciplinary Panel on this shambolic Kangaroo Court should have been so bereft of morality, understanding of justice, comprehension of values, lacking any understanding of probity, integrity or common sense that they could possibly have believed FOR ONE MOMENT that they could continue their victimisation of Peter Baker and their oikish behaviour towards Petrina Holdsworth in her official capacity, 5 witnesses 4 of whom were Branch Chairmen and that they thought the attempt of Gerard Batten to corrupt due process and interfere with a party Court caase to suit his small minded failure rto uinderstand his duty or how to behave other than as an ill bred semie literate tedious oik beggars belief.

It says so much about UKIP.

Had UKIP any future it would have automatically called for the resignation of these 6 individuals who have so unarguably brought UKIP into disrepute YET AGAIN. Clearly these grubby little people are unfit to represent anyone let alone a political party, as for the 2 MEPs they bring shame upon Britain by their sordid behaviour and their self important self seeking abuse of office – they should be forced to write foulsome letters of apology to be made public together with their resignations effective immediately. I doubt they will they lack the breeding, stature, integrity – clearly they are too pig ignorant to even understand!

Simon Muir

You said it, matey.
It's your leader who has, years before any election, delcared a marriage of convenience with the Tories that essentially lets them (and a weakened UKIP) off the hook. The Cameroons save seats, UKIP is saved the embarrassment of trying to contest seats when it hasn't suvfficient troops on the ground. Faustian or what?

You still haven't apologised for your behaviour, incidentally. I assume you think that rudeness is right and proper, as befits a Party Secretary and two MEPs. Was it that those attending the hearing didn't show you all sufficient deference?
If 'publicity clears the air' I'll assume that you'd be happy for Peter Baker to place all the charges against him into the public domain. I don't speak for him at all, but my suspicion is that he's kept quiet because he cares to protect the party, principally from the damage that may be done to it by twerps like yourself, Clark and Batten.

Thinking on it, you may well be right - UKIP members should know fully how you three (and the rest of the leadership) operate.

Pat_Pending

Reading the above I would say all parties concerned deserve a good slap and should all be hauled before the DC.

AND to be trading such childish insults not just between each other but copying in the media is a down right disgrace.

Simon Muir

If you knew what YOUR leadership has been doing in YOUR name...

... I repeat: either UKIP has clean hands or it has nothing.

If you want a party worth bothering with, you need to take on and deal with the likes of Denny, etc. before it's too late. Start asking hard questions and don't be fobbed-off with bland answers.

Do you honestly think Denny should be behaving in this way, as party General Secretary? If you don't, why aren't YOU doing something about it - don't leave it to someone else!

If UKIP is to have any role in saving the country, you have precious little time.

Soddball

I am astonished, quite frankly, at the level of immaturity on all sides. My god, you people are supposed to be adults. I don't think I've seen this amount of childish name-calling in email since I did some contract IT work for Amicus.

If this is what the sharp end of politics is then roll on the one-party state because I fail to see how it could be worse.