Nigel on the ropes already?

michael mcgough · 11-10-2006, 05:13 PM

"looking at the list most of them are Labour anyway"

wrong

"Look at Redwood; biggest EUsceptic in Westminster"

wrong (and not a BOO supporter)

C_steam · 11-10-2006, 05:56 PM

Well, he's a pretty high profile eurosceptic but not a BOO candidate.

So, currently we would stand against him, but wouldn't if he signed a bit of paper. In other words, the judgement is not made on the individuals previously stated and written opinion (i.e the existiing body of knowledge and the track record of performance) but on a signature or otherwise.

It's a pretty poor process to use to select where you stand.

michael mcgough · 11-10-2006, 06:17 PM

you have to draw the line somewhere and that is the list.Take Hague ,he talked the talk,as did Portillo and IDS but they don't deliver.Many in the shadow cabinet or whips would support BOO but will not for they would lose their positions(as if a shadow job is prestigious)-----tough.However those guys like Philip Davies ,Philip Hollobone etc have put cause and country first.
Reswood may have a track record of written work but for him the problem is always to be solved' manana'

"it's a pretty poor process to use to select where you stand."
It will be used to select where NOT to stand and is as valid as any by my book.

Richard Allen · 11-10-2006, 06:36 PM

I understand the desire to fight every single seat but we have to ask the question. Would removing MP's like Bill Cash and Richard Shepherd from the House of Commons actually advance our cause?

We have to fight smart.

C_steam · 11-10-2006, 06:47 PM

The underlying argument is that BOO candidates have signed a declaration. There is also the BDI (or has it been swept up by BOO?).

Anyway - the argument basically runs that we should not stand against 'friends' because ultimately we want our best chance of being in Westminster. But surely our best approach is to have a Westminster with a majority of euro-sceptics?

Consider - if you stand against a non-boo eurosceptic tory and, in doing so, let in a pre-eu lib dem have you actually advanced the cause or hindered it?

Colin McNamee · 11-10-2006, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C_steam

The underlying argument is that BOO candidates have signed a declaration. There is also the BDI (or has it been swept up by BOO?).

Anyway - the argument basically runs that we should not stand against 'friends' because ultimately we want our best chance of being in Westminster. But surely our best approach is to have a Westminster with a majority of euro-sceptics?

Consider - if you stand against a non-boo eurosceptic tory and, in doing so, let in a pre-eu lib dem have you actually advanced the cause or hindered it?

Eurosceptic.

One who believes in the EU and wants to change it from within. That is, remain in. No difference in my book to being pro EU.

It is academic anyway as their respective parties couldn't give a toss and unless there were significant numbers of MP's across the parties and in any one party they can't do ****** all.

Recent instance in Dorchester of Roger Helmer, Con MEP aanti EU - not Eurosceptic, - refusing to appear on a public platform to debate with Oliver Letwin, Conservative Party EU policy - UK better off out.

gimlet · 11-10-2006, 07:07 PM

This from an earlier post:

Quote:

United they stand

Earlier this year David Cameron made it clear that he views the growing number of Tory parliamentarians who wish to withdraw from the EU as an irritation, declaring that none of them would be allowed frontbench jobs.

It is intriguing to discover that the Tory policy chief, Oliver Letwin, will tonight be engaging with one of those supporters of the Better Off Out campaign, East Midlands MEP Roger Helmer, at a meeting in Dorchester.

"I was invited to debate against Oliver, but I was insistent that I was not prepared to debate against a fellow Conservative," Helmer tells me.

"Still, I'm more than happy to share a platform with him to discuss European issues. We will probably have slightly different nuances of position, but both within broadly Conservative viewpoints."

Says it all really - keep the pretence going!

Colin McNamee · 11-10-2006, 07:10 PM

....that was on the 8 September, previously advertised and promoted as a debate.

On the 12 September Roger Helmer had the Conservative Party whip restored to him. 'there's good boy.'

Petrina · 11-10-2006, 09:57 PM

Yes the above is particularly sickening ,I wouldn`t trust Letwin as far as I could throw him but I thought Helmer was made of different stuff.

Just goes to show what professional politicians are like ,they cannot bear to be left out of their old groupings /party.I hope that we Ukippers would still put country before party if neccessary .

B.A.Ware · 11-10-2006, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Would removing MP's like Bill Cash and Richard Shepherd from the House of Commons actually advance our cause?

And how have they furthered our cause, apart from a lot of rhetoric have they moved their party one inch nearer withdrawal.

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11-10-2006, 05:13 PM	#21 (permalink)
michael mcgough Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Essex Posts: 679	"looking at the list most of them are Labour anyway" wrong "Look at Redwood; biggest EUsceptic in Westminster" wrong (and not a BOO supporter)

11-10-2006, 05:56 PM	#22 (permalink)
C_steam Super Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Paddling up 5hit creek..... Posts: 7,500	Well, he's a pretty high profile eurosceptic but not a BOO candidate. So, currently we would stand against him, but wouldn't if he signed a bit of paper. In other words, the judgement is not made on the individuals previously stated and written opinion (i.e the existiing body of knowledge and the track record of performance) but on a signature or otherwise. It's a pretty poor process to use to select where you stand.

11-10-2006, 06:17 PM	#23 (permalink)
michael mcgough Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Essex Posts: 679	you have to draw the line somewhere and that is the list.Take Hague ,he talked the talk,as did Portillo and IDS but they don't deliver.Many in the shadow cabinet or whips would support BOO but will not for they would lose their positions(as if a shadow job is prestigious)-----tough.However those guys like Philip Davies ,Philip Hollobone etc have put cause and country first. Reswood may have a track record of written work but for him the problem is always to be solved' manana' "it's a pretty poor process to use to select where you stand." It will be used to select where NOT to stand and is as valid as any by my book.

11-10-2006, 06:36 PM	#24 (permalink)
Richard Allen Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 569	I understand the desire to fight every single seat but we have to ask the question. Would removing MP's like Bill Cash and Richard Shepherd from the House of Commons actually advance our cause? We have to fight smart.

11-10-2006, 06:47 PM	#25 (permalink)
C_steam Super Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Paddling up 5hit creek..... Posts: 7,500	The underlying argument is that BOO candidates have signed a declaration. There is also the BDI (or has it been swept up by BOO?). Anyway - the argument basically runs that we should not stand against 'friends' because ultimately we want our best chance of being in Westminster. But surely our best approach is to have a Westminster with a majority of euro-sceptics? Consider - if you stand against a non-boo eurosceptic tory and, in doing so, let in a pre-eu lib dem have you actually advanced the cause or hindered it?

11-10-2006, 07:10 PM	#28 (permalink)
Colin McNamee Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Somerset Posts: 894	....that was on the 8 September, previously advertised and promoted as a debate. On the 12 September Roger Helmer had the Conservative Party whip restored to him. 'there's good boy.'

11-10-2006, 09:57 PM	#29 (permalink)
Petrina Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: sussex Posts: 979	Yes the above is particularly sickening ,I wouldn`t trust Letwin as far as I could throw him but I thought Helmer was made of different stuff. Just goes to show what professional politicians are like ,they cannot bear to be left out of their old groupings /party.I hope that we Ukippers would still put country before party if neccessary .