Lewkip

Thank you for putting me on the same level as Steve Allison but I must protest. He is elected, I am not. He certainly is someone I admire and would indeed recommend his efforts as the template if one is needed by those like you who lack vision.

I do not have the EU researched out to the nth degree but I am confident enough that my colleagues and I can take what we know and make it borough-relevant alongside non-EU matters that other parties make headway with so don't say that I say `Don't mention the EU' because I never did.

You feel that literature used on local issues, prevents you from using that as a base for national ones. Well you're wrong again. Other parties can make fleeting references to national issues when `going local' and some even avoid it. Far from disconnecting the electorate, by the sheer effort of reaching out to them, to get your name known, you create an awareness base to place the national agenda fully on when the national and Euro elections come round. Communication must be regular and sustainable.

Unfortunately, you are so self-absorbed and lazy to try and be an asset to the party you just whinge and moan about how the party is not helping you to make the case. There comes a point when there is so much discussion one can do and then it becomes counter-productive: I am reaching it now.

Lewkip

I cannot recall any major advertisement that directly names the competition by saying they are better than them. Or takes them to task for not fulfilling their specified role. The business press does that for them. I don't know what car ads you watch but they're not the same I see. Ever thought that your case is flawed?

I'll get on with what I have to do and leave you guys to wallow around in your self-pity.

Soddball

I think that good points have been raised by both sides. What we're seeing, though, is not concerns about goals, but about the methods used to reach those goals.

I don't see any reason why each local group should not use the methods that suit them best and that get the results they seek. Lewkip has shown that in his area his method works well. It's hard to criticise that method unless you've tried it elsewhere and it hasn't worked. Lewkip quite reasonably points out that on local issues, local concerns matter. Residents may not care that an EU directive on recycling means their council has changed rubbish collection arrangements, but they will care when the bins stink and are full of maggots. Prospective councillors can't just say 'It's the EU's fault' because that doesn't solve people's problems - which is what local government is supposed to be about.

I'd also respectfully suggest that whilst we may get hot under the collar, abuse simply weakens the areas on which we agree and is counterproductive. It makes it hard to separate invective from constructive criticism.

Personally I would think that an increase in support from 'central office' without excessive prescription as to methods and techniques would be beneficial, but I'm open to conversion. Prober raises important points about information flowing down from central office - support packs, software templates and fora were mentioned, all excellent suggestions.

Lewkip

Let me give you some background:

I joined UKIP in late 2003. I stood for Lewisham West in 2005 and won 773 votes across six wards (possibly the highest UKIP vote to date in Lewisham but hardly earth shattering). This year I stood, as the sole candidate, in Whitefoot ward, the sole candidate in Lewisham infact and got 281 votes. Very crudely put, if you multiply 281 by 6 (as in 6 wards), you get 1686, a rate more than double I got last year when there was a higher turnout across more wards with the Royal Mail-delivered leaflet.

I spent practically the same time campaigning, for want of a better term: Some 3 weeks leafletting (in high streets and outside train stations in the generals; door-to-door in the locals): It was the only time I could get off work. The one major difference this year is that I knocked on the doors of most of the estates on my main roads and did old-fashioned canvassing. For most people, I was the only candidate who did that.

Together with the experience of the month-in, month-out efforts of the LibDems and what I picked up personally, I realised profoundly that you cannot wage a campaign a month or so before a campaign and expect results. Of course I read this before but it took these two elections to make them stark to me.

Lewisham used to fall within UKIP South East London: a grouping of three boroughs (Southwark, Lewisham and Greenwich). I took the view after the locals this year that Lewisham deserved its own identity and paved the way for a distinct branch to serve this borough's interests. Leveraging what I have personally experienced, I am trying to give shape to the aspirations of members in this borough to make UKIP relevant to the electorate.

We have the 2008 GLA elections in London where Lewisham and Greenwich will be considered one electoral constituency, and time is running out. I am determined to get this borough into shape electorally with the campaigns needed to reach out to the electorate, and liaise with my colleagues across the borough border to do likewise. Although time is going, there is still a lot that can be done in a year and a half.

Do you think after all this I am so stupidly naive to not be affected by the bruising comments made about the leadership nationally? For me it is simple: Will the leadership really affect me on the ground or not? I beg to say it will not. The electorate are not coming online here to witness the endless complaining. Many of them have a distant opinion of UKIP, and other than the odd newspaper or TV report, the only thing they'll ever know about us is through the UKIP leaflet.

Another choice: Do I quit or try? After all I have learnt, after all I now know...Try.

Lewkip

Support from central office would be great but how much is enough? And how long can we wait until posters here think its enough? I cannot abide it when people say the LibDems have things handed on a platter which is why they do well locally (which, by itself, is incorrect). It suggests that UKIP must aim for that too. Well we simply do not have the same electoral success, history or support to mimic them, much less in a suitable timeframe.

In the meantime, we can endlessly debate the so-called crisis in leadership or figure another way round the problem, which is what I wish to do.

And I would urge all well-meaning posters here to also consider doing the same.

eublues

Nigel says he wants the party to be put on a more 'professional' basis - we may see changes in the area of better policy and campaigning support.

Bluemerle

Nigel wants the party to be run by the MEPs, members to do as they are told and start wearing out some shoe leather.

Millennium3

With 75% of homes connected to the internet, isn't there a way we can get to the public without putting leaflets through their doors?

Most of this paper will go straight in the dustbin to fill up even more waste sites.

prober

One thing this discussion shows is that Lib Dems are on a level of hard nosed cynical pragmatic strategy choosing whilst presenting a cuddlyhuman face ... which we can only dream of becoming in the future.
Few UKIP candidates can beat them on their own ground. So we select our own ground instead.

eg in Bromley Lib Dems adopted the English flag ( patriotic vote) and sick making pictures of their candidate wheeling a pram with a baby saying "wouldnt it be nice if .......... is elected ( the ahhh young mother vote ). Somehow I cant see a campaign based on Nigel wheeling a pram around with a borrowed baby will work ! even if the baby has a Union Jack bib, and the milk bottle in Nigel's hand has "EU approved" on it.

mkpdavies

Bromley was a good example of what the Lib Dems would do to win and it nearly friggin worked too!

I lost a lot of faith in my fellow Brits then.

The biggest problem, is the people that saw through all that crapola, just didn't vote. They didn't trust anyone, including UKIP.

UKIP ran it's most intensive campaign ever there, with support that will never be seen outside a byelection again.

So that says something to me. Either UKIP has a message that is so wrong and out of touch with people, that it barley registers. Or UKIP has such a poor image on a national level, that it doesn't really matter what you do at a local level.

I rest my case.

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