The Slippery Slope......

Winston's Black Dog · 21-08-2006, 12:45 PM

http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/burke.html

Who is to say that people will not be starved for economic or more sinister reasons?

Who determines "quality of life"? Is a lifestyle contrary to the prevailing orthodoxy of lesser quality?

This could easily become 21st Century eugenics.

At a time when elderly and vulnerable people are increasing in numbers UKIP should pledge to fight decisions such as this and campaign actively to protect the vulnerable in our society.

Winston's Black Dog · 22-08-2006, 08:02 AM

I have to say it surprises me that I appear to be the only person concerned by this decision.

Hartlepool · 22-08-2006, 08:07 AM

I was always under the impression that we all had the right to life,anyone helping to keep someone alive must always be looked upon as being within the Law,those who work to end a life,however,for whatever reason.........?

mkpdavies · 22-08-2006, 09:01 AM

People are lazy, you need to give them to meat to chew on without having to click.

Quote:

A terminally ill patient does not have the right to prevent doctors from starving him to death in the final stages of his illness, European judges have ruled.
The European Court of Human Rights rejected the plea of Leslie Burke, 46, for doctors to continue giving him food and fluids after he is no longer able to communicate.
The judges refused to overturn the ruling of the Appeal Court in London last year, ending a court battle between Mr Burke and the British General Medical Council (GMC) that began more than three years ago. The Appeal Court concluded that doctors had the right to withdraw artificial nourishment and water if they believed it was “in the patient’s best interests”.

So the ECJ backed a British court for a change, but have effectively said that doctors have the right to withdraw food and water, if the patient isn't capable of taking the nourishment on board themselves, in this case.

Well, it's putting a lot of trust in the Doctors judgement. Whether the doctors will be making that judgement for the right reasons (IE there is nil chance of recovery) or more controversial ones (free up a bed, save money, etc), is another matter.

It's one of those grey areas for me. I would rather doctors had the say, rather than judges and politicians. The patient themselves requesting otherwise before the event makes it pretty tough though.

It's another one of those tough areas where there is no right answer for me. Do we really want vital resources being taken up by the living dead, meaning others could miss out or not get the care they really need?

If you are rich you have the option of going private I guess. Do the less well off have the right, to expect society to sustain their bodies, with little to no hope of recovery, maybe at the expense of others?

Again we are back to judgement and I would rather the doctors made it.

kernow · 22-08-2006, 09:01 PM

I am against starving terminally ill patients to death. What if they where conscious but unable to communicate their feelings imagine the circumstances of being unable to communicate that you had a raging thirst!

Hartlepool · 22-08-2006, 09:28 PM

As someone who looks after a relative for 4/6 hours a day 5 or 6 days every week I must say that the very idea of starving someone to death is only an excuse to cut costs by killing them.

The person I help with was normal and fit 16 months ago,12 months ago they had problems with speach and then with walking upstairs.Now,from someone who had never been sick or in hospital we have someone whose mind is still as it was the day they graduated but cant speak,or move any limbs,has big trouble swallowing and breathing,yet,6 days out of 7 is a person who has accepted his lot but is happy to be alive.He has his down days but is normally a real battler,hour in,hour out throughout each day.

This person lives only on water and 220ml milk shake build-up drinks,7 per day plus the only drink by mouth of 50ml coffee,the rest is via tube/peg.This person is extremely intelligent and aware of everything.

Imagine it,choking,each time you swallow your own saliva,horrendous.

There is no way that I would let this starvation idea be used on him or anyone else that I knew about in similar circumstances.

We are now becoming lower than rabid dogs to contemplate ideas like this for our people.

He is suffering from MND,Motor Neuron Disease,fatal and untreatable,there is no medication for this.

kernow · 22-08-2006, 09:38 PM

Thank you Hartlepool for that very good description, those who think it a good idea to refuse food and water to a terminally ill person should be made to read your posting!

Hartlepool · 23-08-2006, 08:18 AM

The food he takes costs less than £100-00 per month to keep him at his normal weight of about 180LBS.

mkpdavies · 23-08-2006, 09:51 AM

If a doctor made the call to stop force feeding such a person, I would want them struck off.

This-England · 23-08-2006, 10:06 AM

This is pure barbarism.
If we are going to have Euthanasia it should be by injection and patients consent no one else’s.

21-08-2006, 12:45 PM	#1 (permalink)
Winston's Black Dog Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 59	The Slippery Slope...... http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/burke.html Who is to say that people will not be starved for economic or more sinister reasons? Who determines "quality of life"? Is a lifestyle contrary to the prevailing orthodoxy of lesser quality? This could easily become 21st Century eugenics. At a time when elderly and vulnerable people are increasing in numbers UKIP should pledge to fight decisions such as this and campaign actively to protect the vulnerable in our society.

23-08-2006, 09:51 AM	#9 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,615	If a doctor made the call to stop force feeding such a person, I would want them struck off. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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22-08-2006, 08:02 AM	#2 (permalink)
Winston's Black Dog Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 59	I have to say it surprises me that I appear to be the only person concerned by this decision.

22-08-2006, 08:07 AM	#3 (permalink)
Hartlepool Uber Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: North East England Posts: 6,409	I was always under the impression that we all had the right to life,anyone helping to keep someone alive must always be looked upon as being within the Law,those who work to end a life,however,for whatever reason.........?

22-08-2006, 09:01 PM	#5 (permalink)
kernow Uber Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 4,601	I am against starving terminally ill patients to death. What if they where conscious but unable to communicate their feelings imagine the circumstances of being unable to communicate that you had a raging thirst!

22-08-2006, 09:28 PM	#6 (permalink)
Hartlepool Uber Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: North East England Posts: 6,409	As someone who looks after a relative for 4/6 hours a day 5 or 6 days every week I must say that the very idea of starving someone to death is only an excuse to cut costs by killing them. The person I help with was normal and fit 16 months ago,12 months ago they had problems with speach and then with walking upstairs.Now,from someone who had never been sick or in hospital we have someone whose mind is still as it was the day they graduated but cant speak,or move any limbs,has big trouble swallowing and breathing,yet,6 days out of 7 is a person who has accepted his lot but is happy to be alive.He has his down days but is normally a real battler,hour in,hour out throughout each day. This person lives only on water and 220ml milk shake build-up drinks,7 per day plus the only drink by mouth of 50ml coffee,the rest is via tube/peg.This person is extremely intelligent and aware of everything. Imagine it,choking,each time you swallow your own saliva,horrendous. There is no way that I would let this starvation idea be used on him or anyone else that I knew about in similar circumstances. We are now becoming lower than rabid dogs to contemplate ideas like this for our people. He is suffering from MND,Motor Neuron Disease,fatal and untreatable,there is no medication for this.

22-08-2006, 09:38 PM	#7 (permalink)
kernow Uber Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 4,601	Thank you Hartlepool for that very good description, those who think it a good idea to refuse food and water to a terminally ill person should be made to read your posting!

23-08-2006, 08:18 AM	#8 (permalink)
Hartlepool Uber Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: North East England Posts: 6,409	The food he takes costs less than £100-00 per month to keep him at his normal weight of about 180LBS.

23-08-2006, 10:06 AM	#10 (permalink)
This-England Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,682	This is pure barbarism. If we are going to have Euthanasia it should be by injection and patients consent no one else’s.