Christina

Yes, Colin I was thinking of the USA. The USA is generally considered much better at business than the UK and this is because UK businesses are often run by accountants. If you want excellence, a business needs a CEO who is an excellent salesperson.

So, it seems Richard is speaking from a 'business run by accountants ' model, and that is nonsense. The best businesses do not run that way.

A CEO should be a man or woman with lots of vision, not just an organiser. The COO should be the oerganiser.

Thus, IMO, Richard would probably be a good Chairman, but not necessarily a good leader. A good COO, but not CEO. Unless we want UKIP run on the accountant model.

Bluemerle

That let's Nigel out then. He can't even organise his two man office in Lyminster. :shock:

John Page

Whatever his background, Nigel is already a failed leader. Look at the MEPs - no vision, no strategy, no teambuilding, no effectiveness.

They're the most underperforming part of the party. That's Nigel's fault.

Colin McNamee

OK, well there are considerably different markets and laws governing business so very difficult to make a simple assertion of transfer of what works over there applies/works over here.

Generally just because your best salesman (forget the PC bit, anyway we are talking Nigel here) is your best best salesman does not and should not automatically qualify him for Sales Director or even Leader. Good salesman tend to be loners, very driven - usually for self reward/acclaim, nothing wrong with that imo - but are not neccessarily Leader/Sales Director material because of it.

I am supporting and voted for Richard despite his being a banker (accountant mould maybe?) but for his organisational and management skills. I do not consider that he is necessarily as charasmatic Nigel, I do consider Richard to be a good communicator and has the skills and abilities to delegate, moreso than Nigel.

It is the organisational, directional Leadership requirments which are paramount.

I do not accept that Nigel is the only person in this party who is excellent/very good on a platform, in a TV/Radio studio interview situation. He is quick witted, sometimes humorously so, knows his subject. I was impressed and surprised at the quality of some UKIP MEP's and other members on the platform at 2005 conference and realized why I was. I hadn't heard them before, just Nigel on TV/radio.

Nigel, with others, can continue to do that. he doesn't have to be Leader.

It is the organisational, directional Leadership requirments which are paramount with the skill to select people and delegate.

PS. Don't run away with the thought that USA companies are always successful and UK ones are not and that I am avoiding tyour statement. A different subject for another day :wink:

Christina

I don't support Nigel, I support DCB, but I didn't like Richard's statement about salesmen not being in charge of companies. They would be better companies IMO.

Colin McNamee

I think that the words missing from Richard's comments and indeed from your own are

'don't necessarily make ' obviously some do, eg Alan Sugar.

and there again

Hanson Trust was, both over there and over here ! Very heavily, but not totally, accounts orientated and results managed in a similar way at Divisional and CEO levels.


I submit, if you want excellence, a business needs a CEO who is an excellent buisnessman !

SponPlague

The FACT is, folks, that with our constitution as it stands, the leader is expected to spend 50% of their time on Admin. Like it or loathe it, that's what we voted on, and Nigel, Richard and DCB were on the NEC that presented it to us.

Richard, DCB, and David have accepted that, and put forward proposals.
Nigel says he will "appoint someone once the election is over" to handle that part for him.

I don't find that acceptable - If I went for a job interview, and said I'm good at and like half the job - hire me and I'll subcontract the rest as I choose - I'd be out on my ear :!: :twisted: :!:

Colin McNamee

SponPlague, now come on. Aren't employers hiring 'pig in a poke' anymore :?:

Did they ever :?: :roll:

prober

If you have a back street dody company selling 2nd rate double glazing bought cheap as a job lot from China then all you need at the top is a great salesman & spin artist leading a load of unscrupulous guys on commission who have the gift of the gob to say anything to get a sale.

If you want a profitable business for the long term you need some one who can build the company as a growing dynamic imaginative financial,systems, asset, and people structure with a credible quality product you believe in that connects with what people and a changing market wants.

Well below the top you hire credible product knowledgeable service offering salesman to deal with corporate buyers, have credible mid levels
who can handle the media, and imaginative advert designers to connect with the public. You also need the essential core of building block " engineers & nerds" to crunch out the product and innovations and manuals etc.

Those of us with business experience know how far the double glazing salesman approach to real clients in the real world works. As regards bypassing corporate clients to direct facing the public, the public now have a feel for what is spin with nothing behind it & what is the emerging presence of something with substance & credibility. As a protest vote they might vote for the former but if they are looking for something better than the usual suspects at best they might abstain.

Getting 3.3ish % of the electorate in Bromley ( up from 2.1% 2005) is about the limit for solely a selling exercise. Lots abstained.

mkpdavies

I work for one of the Biggest American companies there is.

Trust me, accountants run the show.

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