A-Level Exam Results

mkpdavies · 16-08-2006, 06:34 PM

http://www.ukip.org/ukip_news/gen12.php?t=1&id=2436

Quote:

A-Level results out tomorrow (17.8.06) will once again show that more and more pupils are getting top grades.

Recent trends have shown the pass rate in the exams moving ever closer to 100%, yet universities and businesses have expressed their concern about the lack of basic skills children possess. David Campbell Bannerman, the chairman of the UK Independence Party today (16.8.06) said: "Our current education system is letting down the very people it says it helps. With this obsession about everyone being the same, the brightest and the best are not being allowed to shine."

He continued: "Nobody should criticise the children who have worked for their results, but they, our universities and our employers are being let down by a system designed to protect an incompetent Government and it's failing policies".

The UK Independence Party believes that traditional examinations, rather than modules and coursework, are more reliable indicators of a pupil’s merit and are impartial. It also believes in scrapping the meaningless 50% target for university attendance and a move towards vocational qualifications and training for less academic pupils.

Notes to editors
The UK Independence Party’s recently published education policy: Time to come clean can be found by logging on to:
http://www.ukip.org/cgi-bin/axs/ax.p...peducation.pdf

The proportion of “A” grades at “A” level from has increased from 12.8% in 1992 to 22.6% in 2005.

Oxford and Cambridge Universities have reinstituted admissions tests as they no longer value A level results as an effective tool to differentiate between students.

Today it was announced that 10,000 students attained 3 As and above at 'A' level.

eublues · 16-08-2006, 08:55 PM

In statements about education particularly the UKIP proof readers should try a bit harder than usual.

In the second paragraph "it's" should be its.

Also, Oxford and Cambridge do still use A level grades as the basis for offers. They also interview, and they have recently been experimenting with reasoning tests to provide additional information. They say that it is now difficult to differentiate between students with 3 A grades at A level, but the statement at the bottom is somewhat misleading as worded.

Apart from that a good press release!

StGeorge · 17-08-2006, 10:28 AM

Wonder what the pass rates are in the proper Sciences and Maths etc. instead of Media Studies, Business Studies and Psychology etc.

I was daft enough to take the difficult subjects and I don't know anyone who got an A in them despite it being the best 6th form around for miles let alone the 1 in 4? Certainly weren't easy, how many years have they been easy now. I remember talking to a Chemistry graduate about some of the content in Chemistry A-Level and a lot of it he only started to learn at Uni.

eublues · 17-08-2006, 06:18 PM

The inflation started in 1986 when the Tories introduced the GCSE. As a measure of the grade inflation at A level, in the sixties to get into medicine you needed 3 Cs at A level (and that was difficult to achieve) - now you need 3As (or 2As and 1B).

A grade C at A level now would have been a fail more than 20 years ago. A part of the problem is the inclusion of coursework which can't be guaranteed to be the candidate's own work.

Clippo · 18-08-2006, 08:10 AM

What you both say about the quality of 'A'-levels is absolutely true.

In their tediously usual annual news spot showing students getting their results - (usually showing some girly swot getting 30 'A's & shrieking & swooning into the arms of her miserable mate who only got 25), I noticed yesterday a quick flash of 2 questions on a University entrance exam. These, you will remember, were introduced by some universities because the current 'A'-level exams "don't differentiate between the good & exceptional students". The point is these were both multiple choice answer questions. One was about the circulation of the heart, the other, I think, about how many atoms in a milligram of Uranium. The joke, (although it's not really a laughing matter), is that these questions are supposed to be more probing that 'A'-levels. Heaven forbid what standard 'A'-levels really are now.
I fail to see utterly how such questions can be as intellectually probing as the older style questions where one had to, say, describe the circulation of blood through the heart or do a direct calculation with your reasoning.
(Btw, I have a PhD in a science subject but struggled at 'A'-level - had to re-sit to get to uni, so I admit I'm probably a bit jealous of how easy it is for today's students).

The fault, imo, lies squarely with the anti-elitist brigade who propagate this stupid notion that nobody should 'fail' because they'll feel inferior. Well, real life ain't like that - there are cleverer people than you out there & they tend to get the better jobs and you have to like it or lump it.

Millennium3 · 18-08-2006, 09:37 AM

Of course it might work like this:

On coming to office Blair’s sole interest was his legacy: Lots of new universities being opened [plenty of photo opportunities] lots more ‘A’ level passes [by reducing standards], lots more attending university and getting degrees [credited with providing many more graduates].

Blair's legacy: The building of many new schools and universities [using PFI where necessary and hocking the national purse for the next 20-30 years] many more passing ‘A’ levels with high grades so that they can attend these universities.

If the standards are not reduced, there will not be enough students to fill all of the new places and no one to pay fees etc. to meet the exorbitant cost of the PFI’s!

C_steam · 18-08-2006, 09:48 AM

The ever higher A level results are a big problem for employers - how the hell can we differentiate at the initial application stage?

For graduates, We used to operate a screen system with various go/no-go judgements, including 'UCAS' points (based on the 3 best A level results, Grade A = 10, Grade B - 8, and so on). Now we can't do that, but we can't interview - even telephone interview - 750 applicants.

Effectively, the higher pass rate just makes the exams meaningless as a tool for selection, so why bother having them?

The large number of Uni's also means the old traditional 'milk round' is out of the question.

More and more large companies have this problem, and more and more of them are opting to recruit only from certain uni's - ones where they know the students are of a good standard (in effect, the university is the 'pre screen'). These selected Uni's are the only ones where the positions are advertise, and the only recruitment fairs attended. Which makes a mockery of the whole system.

Bluemerle · 18-08-2006, 10:00 AM

If all these youngsters get such wonderful grades, and the pass marks haven't been moved down, how come many have to be schooled in simple English when they enter Uni or the job environment.

When I left school many moons ago, everybody could read and add up, even the dumbest. We didn't have course work, which I think is a scam, and we didn't have computers or calculators, what we had to have was a good memory and an ability to add two + two.

Universities creamed the brightest, the rest went to Further Education Colleges, or Polytechnics which of course have now been promotedd to Universities.

One thing that helped was sitting facing the teacher and black(white)board, and not huddled around tables with all the distractions that go with them.

Nic · 19-08-2006, 07:27 AM

This is absolutely shameful.

My daughter has just got her grades - all As - and can now go to the university of her choice to do the subject of her choice (French with Russian to forestall any sarcastic comments about that).

As she says when confronted with cr*p like this, all she can do is be taught in the way she's taught, to the standards she's taught and then sit the exam that's set for her.

I personally don't give a rat's ar*e for any w*anker who seeks in any way to belittle her or denigrate the efforts she's made. I've seen the amount of work she's put in over the last 2 years and I'm very proud of her.

mkpdavies · 19-08-2006, 07:49 AM

The problem at the moment, is there are so many people getting top grades at A-Level, that people have become suspicious of the standards. Especially when Business and Universities say the kids they are taking on seem to be lacking basic skills, even thought they are carrying sack loads of A's in their exam results.

This let's down everyone, especially the kids who really do deserve the A's (of which your daughter may be one), as confidence in the system has been lost.

I was watching the news the other day and they were saying how the International Bachelorette (invented in Switzerland), was now becoming the prefered measure of excellence in a lot of places.

I guess the real question is, are the exams really getting that much easier, or are kids getting more intelligent (if you believe in Darwin, then why not), or does the fact that kids have much better tools to learn now help too? I would have loved the internet when I was a kid, as it would have helped me where I had poor teachers.

Now we have this stats based, performance based, league table based culture, there is great pressure on schools to perform. Therefore they are bound to show improvement every year, either by really pushing standards or massaging the figures.

It won't matter to your kid much though, she can only beat what is put in front of her and if she did that, then employers/universities will still have open arms for her. Yep she will have a bit more competition, but the best tend to rise to the top sooner or later.

19-08-2006, 07:49 AM	#10 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 31,030 Party: Libertarian Party	The problem at the moment, is there are so many people getting top grades at A-Level, that people have become suspicious of the standards. Especially when Business and Universities say the kids they are taking on seem to be lacking basic skills, even thought they are carrying sack loads of A's in their exam results. This let's down everyone, especially the kids who really do deserve the A's (of which your daughter may be one), as confidence in the system has been lost. I was watching the news the other day and they were saying how the International Bachelorette (invented in Switzerland), was now becoming the prefered measure of excellence in a lot of places. I guess the real question is, are the exams really getting that much easier, or are kids getting more intelligent (if you believe in Darwin, then why not), or does the fact that kids have much better tools to learn now help too? I would have loved the internet when I was a kid, as it would have helped me where I had poor teachers. Now we have this stats based, performance based, league table based culture, there is great pressure on schools to perform. Therefore they are bound to show improvement every year, either by really pushing standards or massaging the figures. It won't matter to your kid much though, she can only beat what is put in front of her and if she did that, then employers/universities will still have open arms for her. Yep she will have a bit more competition, but the best tend to rise to the top sooner or later. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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16-08-2006, 08:55 PM	#2 (permalink)
eublues Uber Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,122	In statements about education particularly the UKIP proof readers should try a bit harder than usual. In the second paragraph "it's" should be its. Also, Oxford and Cambridge do still use A level grades as the basis for offers. They also interview, and they have recently been experimenting with reasoning tests to provide additional information. They say that it is now difficult to differentiate between students with 3 A grades at A level, but the statement at the bottom is somewhat misleading as worded. Apart from that a good press release!

17-08-2006, 10:28 AM	#3 (permalink)
StGeorge Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 416	Wonder what the pass rates are in the proper Sciences and Maths etc. instead of Media Studies, Business Studies and Psychology etc. I was daft enough to take the difficult subjects and I don't know anyone who got an A in them despite it being the best 6th form around for miles let alone the 1 in 4? Certainly weren't easy, how many years have they been easy now. I remember talking to a Chemistry graduate about some of the content in Chemistry A-Level and a lot of it he only started to learn at Uni.

17-08-2006, 06:18 PM	#4 (permalink)
eublues Uber Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,122	The inflation started in 1986 when the Tories introduced the GCSE. As a measure of the grade inflation at A level, in the sixties to get into medicine you needed 3 Cs at A level (and that was difficult to achieve) - now you need 3As (or 2As and 1B). A grade C at A level now would have been a fail more than 20 years ago. A part of the problem is the inclusion of coursework which can't be guaranteed to be the candidate's own work.

18-08-2006, 08:10 AM	#5 (permalink)
Clippo Uber Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Cheshire Posts: 2,258	What you both say about the quality of 'A'-levels is absolutely true. In their tediously usual annual news spot showing students getting their results - (usually showing some girly swot getting 30 'A's & shrieking & swooning into the arms of her miserable mate who only got 25), I noticed yesterday a quick flash of 2 questions on a University entrance exam. These, you will remember, were introduced by some universities because the current 'A'-level exams "don't differentiate between the good & exceptional students". The point is these were both multiple choice answer questions. One was about the circulation of the heart, the other, I think, about how many atoms in a milligram of Uranium. The joke, (although it's not really a laughing matter), is that these questions are supposed to be more probing that 'A'-levels. Heaven forbid what standard 'A'-levels really are now. I fail to see utterly how such questions can be as intellectually probing as the older style questions where one had to, say, describe the circulation of blood through the heart or do a direct calculation with your reasoning. (Btw, I have a PhD in a science subject but struggled at 'A'-level - had to re-sit to get to uni, so I admit I'm probably a bit jealous of how easy it is for today's students). The fault, imo, lies squarely with the anti-elitist brigade who propagate this stupid notion that nobody should 'fail' because they'll feel inferior. Well, real life ain't like that - there are cleverer people than you out there & they tend to get the better jobs and you have to like it or lump it.

18-08-2006, 09:37 AM	#6 (permalink)
Millennium3 Moderator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Berkshire Posts: 4,568	Of course it might work like this: On coming to office Blair’s sole interest was his legacy: Lots of new universities being opened [plenty of photo opportunities] lots more ‘A’ level passes [by reducing standards], lots more attending university and getting degrees [credited with providing many more graduates]. Blair's legacy: The building of many new schools and universities [using PFI where necessary and hocking the national purse for the next 20-30 years] many more passing ‘A’ levels with high grades so that they can attend these universities. If the standards are not reduced, there will not be enough students to fill all of the new places and no one to pay fees etc. to meet the exorbitant cost of the PFI’s!

18-08-2006, 09:48 AM	#7 (permalink)
C_steam Super Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Paddling up 5hit creek..... Posts: 7,785	The ever higher A level results are a big problem for employers - how the hell can we differentiate at the initial application stage? For graduates, We used to operate a screen system with various go/no-go judgements, including 'UCAS' points (based on the 3 best A level results, Grade A = 10, Grade B - 8, and so on). Now we can't do that, but we can't interview - even telephone interview - 750 applicants. Effectively, the higher pass rate just makes the exams meaningless as a tool for selection, so why bother having them? The large number of Uni's also means the old traditional 'milk round' is out of the question. More and more large companies have this problem, and more and more of them are opting to recruit only from certain uni's - ones where they know the students are of a good standard (in effect, the university is the 'pre screen'). These selected Uni's are the only ones where the positions are advertise, and the only recruitment fairs attended. Which makes a mockery of the whole system.

18-08-2006, 10:00 AM	#8 (permalink)
Bluemerle Uber Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Dorset. Posts: 3,252	If all these youngsters get such wonderful grades, and the pass marks haven't been moved down, how come many have to be schooled in simple English when they enter Uni or the job environment. When I left school many moons ago, everybody could read and add up, even the dumbest. We didn't have course work, which I think is a scam, and we didn't have computers or calculators, what we had to have was a good memory and an ability to add two + two. Universities creamed the brightest, the rest went to Further Education Colleges, or Polytechnics which of course have now been promotedd to Universities. One thing that helped was sitting facing the teacher and black(white)board, and not huddled around tables with all the distractions that go with them.

19-08-2006, 07:27 AM	#9 (permalink)
Nic Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Wiltshire, UK Posts: 164	This is absolutely shameful. My daughter has just got her grades - all As - and can now go to the university of her choice to do the subject of her choice (French with Russian to forestall any sarcastic comments about that). As she says when confronted with crp like this, all she can do is be taught in the way she's taught, to the standards she's taught and then sit the exam that's set for her. I personally don't give a rat's are for any w*anker who seeks in any way to belittle her or denigrate the efforts she's made. I've seen the amount of work she's put in over the last 2 years and I'm very proud of her.