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My daughter has just got 4 As at A level (in all the hard sciences). She is clever, has worked hard and this is a fantastic achievement. We are very proud of her.

However, while she might have got 4 grade As twenty years ago, there are various reasons to do with the current system (driven ultimately by political spin merchants) that have made getting this sort of result much more likely now.

Not dismissing her achievement at all - just recognising the context honestly.

Bluemerle

Of course there are some really bright kids out there, but their achievements are being underrated by the allowing too many to get top grades. I believe it used to be that to get an 'A' grade a student had to get over 80%, and to achieve a 'C'grade 50% pass rate was necessary. Nowadays, nobody is allowed to fail.

I read somewhere recently that results as low as 16% were gaining pass grades, (I think it was in maths), which is just ridiculous.

The Government were pushing for 50% to go on to University, they leave with huge debts, and the possibility that there is no job for them. It is time they brought back apprenticeships.

A few years ago the lad across the road came over with a questionnaire for us to fill in, the English was appalling. He entered University to study medicine and is now in his final year to qualify as a Doctor. He did have a blip in his second year when he wanted to quit, but after a year out, he went back to finish the course.

Clippo

Nic,
I think Matt’s (mpkdavies), response is a pretty balanced view about the whole contentious issue of educational standards. In these posts, I can’t see any personal denigration of individual students achievements, it’s the system some of us are critical about. Good luck to your daughter, I hope she does well in her chosen career and I, too, am immensely proud of my children’s and now grandchildren’s achievements.
I’m puzzled why you had to resort to expletives to make your point though.
However, excellent & well deserved individual personal achievements don’t defuse the main criticisms from independent sources of the current examination systems – particularly ‘A’-level – that in general terms standards have fallen over many decades. It may be that in your daughter’s case and many of the other high performers, they would have done well in the old system. But, imo, you lose all credibility if you ignore the very unbiased comments of employers & university entrance bodies that standards have fallen.

With reference to Matt’s comment about the International Baccalaureate Diploma, -
www.ibo.org/diploma/slideb.cfm - I’ve seen reports of this being touted as an alternative to ‘A’-levels for some time now. From the link you will see that it has a more rounded approach to late secondary education – pulling in Sciences & Arts & Languages. For that reason, & that a big chunk of the marks come from an essay not written under exam conditions, I remain to be convinced that it goes into individual subjects in as much detail as an ‘A’-level.

Now, the Government are talking about A* grades, and in the business sector they’re talking about Special Diplomas - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/mai...7/ccedu117.xml

How are these going to be better than the ONC/HNC/Associate vocational pathway or even the NVQ system?

Forgive me for being a bit paranoid about this (& I’m not normally a supporter of conspiracies) but do I detect some deliberate obfuscation going on here?

I can’t help feeling that the ‘call-me-john’ teachers & the liberal/socialist educational brigade are avoiding the real question here because they can’t palate the stark truth that the educational system has taken a wrong turning & is letting the country down.

Nic

I don't disagree with that.

I didn't say it was personal, the point I was making was that to tell people who have just achieved as much as they could that "they got the grades because the exams are easy nowadays" is denigrating their efforts however you look at it.

Because I'm angry about people's thoughtlessness in making such comments so soon after the results have been announced. In any case, give over, the words I used were mild compared to a lot of the language on this forum so why should I, an occasional poster, be criticised?

All that may be true. However, those criticisms are true all the year round, not just when exam results are being published and celebrated. To greet a set of A grades at A level with the view that standards have slipped certainly does imply that the achievement is worthless and that is, as I put at the top of my first post, shameful.

That may also be true but also shouldn't be raised at the same time as a discussion about the results. Policy made on the hoof, as a knee-jerk reaction to a specific event, is rarely good policy.

Clippo

Nic wrote:-

Even if you think that there is a general view that ‘A’-levels are now worthless, it’s definitely not a view I take.
But I do think that the ‘worth’ of a current ‘A’ level is less than it was but certainly not worthless. I’m sure many students, probably most, put in as much work as earlier ones did but the fault lies, imo, with successive governments in politicising education to gain party advantage.

As for leaving criticism of ‘A’-level results until this time of year, firstly I don’t think that is completely true & secondly when do you suggest critics do it? – ‘on a bad news day’ perhaps’? I don’t think so. Commonsense says those criticisms will have the most impact in making their points when education is the premier topic of the day.
Also, I’m not at all sure who was the first to raise it this year – again! Certainly Matt’s first post on this thread was a UKIP quotation but being cynical, they’re usually late on items like this. Anyway, for years immemorial, the education minister of the time, or a fall guy, has tried to defuse criticism at this time of year by issuing pre-emptive statements all avoiding dropping standards. By raising these absurdly unbelievable arguments again & again at this time of year, they invariably invite critics to have a go & makes me & others question their integrity.

Nic also wrote:-
I’m flattered that you think these comments by me or anybody else constitute something as grand as policy, even ‘on the hoof’. However, I put this forward here & now as one cause, (large, in my view), of the devaluation of the previously regarded ‘A’ – level Gold standard in our education system.

Whether, the government and/or the educational establishment think that my opinion previously stated, and others who hold it, is valid or not, one thing you can’t accuse them of is a knee-jerk to a specific event. Dumbing down of ‘A’ – levels, & other exams, has been going on for many years. Within the Telegraph link in my earlier post, (click on the link therein to see the full article), there are the following couple of paragraphs :-

I wouldn’t call that a knee jerk reaction to a specific event.

I shouldn’t probably have raised the A* & Special Diplomas in this thread. I may raise it the other Education thread which was in UKIP Policy Suggestions but now, by moderators sleight of hand, is in this section.

Finally, I’ll leave you with a quote I had on one of my school reports & which I took notice of & did. I am of course referring to the government now:-
“Could do better”