UKIP Policy on Crime

Rosie · 02-08-2006, 09:57 PM

Whenever crime is discussed, the same old cureall of 'more bobbies on the beat' is requested.

I work in the field of anti-social behaviour (amongst other things) and can assure you there are plenty of bobbies on the beat.

First come the PCSO's, unsupervised and left to do their own thing, quite often to the detriment of the area they work in (by making assumptions based on rumour, gossiping with locals who provide a cuppa and giving a sense of security to people that does not exist).

Next come the Community Beat Mangers. Their role lies somewhere between police officers, community development workers and social workers with a pinch of spin doctor thrown in (check your local freebie newspaper for good news police stories every week). No-one can be all these things and neither can the police.

Then come the response teams, who are there to respond to 999 calls. Their response times and effectiveness depend on whether you are speaking to the victim or reading the newspaper article.

The police, in my opinion, have no motivation anymore to deal with crime. This is not just because of masses of paperwork, but also due to the rapid promotion systems available which means that 'ticking boxes' and achieving nonsensical performance indicators becomes the reason for policing rather than crime solving. Lowering standards for entry to the police has not helped, some are barely literate

This is only part of the problem as the legal system compounds the problem tenfold, but that is a separate topic.

My point is that you can put as many bobbies on the beat as you want, but they need a clear, one dimensional role (i.e. to stop crime not act as social workers etc.), recruits who are up to the job, properly supervised with clear direction and support from top to bottom. The PCSOs also need retiring and replacing with properly trained police officers

This is not happening and until it does crime will continue unabated.

mkpdavies · 02-08-2006, 11:32 PM

Quote:

My point is that you can put as many bobbies on the beat as you want, but they need a clear, one dimensional role (i.e. to stop crime not act as social workers etc.),

I don't totaly agree with this. The whole idea of "bobbies on the beat" isn't just to stop crime.

It's about being their for the law abiding public. A great deal of respect for the police derives from them being seen as there for us. Asking them for directions, asking for help in other ways. All things that a patrol officer used to do, as a public servant without question and with a smile.

Of course beat police should react to crimes taking place as a priority, but the rest of the time, building bridges with people in communites will go a long way to restoring the respect that police should have and actually need.

Should they be going round houses counciling people after crimes? Well that's something different, but yes there should be some sort of victim support personel, whether that is an actual police officer or not is open to debate.

The clearly defined role of a police officer isn't to just stop crime. It is to help the law abiding public and to protect them from non-law abiding persons. That's a dual roll they have always had and should have to maintain respect.

Rosie · 03-08-2006, 12:40 AM

'I' don't totaly agree with this. The whole idea of "bobbies on the beat" isn't just to stop crime.

It's about being their for the law abiding public. A great deal of respect for the police derives from them being seen as there for us. Asking them for directions, asking for help in other ways. All things that a patrol officer used to do, as a public servant without question and with a smile'

The above quote is from MKP Davies

What era are you living in MKP Davies? The police no longer have this kind of respect on any level (except perhaps in Trafalgar Sqaure) however, your opinion does reflect the fantasy of what people would like to see.

Ask the family of Jean de Menezes and Walter Wolfgang how they perceive the police as a 'public service'.

mkpdavies · 03-08-2006, 12:46 AM

Errr, that's why I want it fixed to get back some of the respect being lost.

Accepting they are just stormtroopers now is no solution.

kernow · 03-08-2006, 02:13 AM

[quote="Rosie"]'I' don't totaly agree with this. The whole idea of "bobbies on the beat" isn't just to stop crime.

It's about being their for the law abiding public. A great deal of respect for the police derives from them being seen as there for us. Asking them for directions, asking for help in other ways. All things that a patrol officer used to do, as a public servant without question and with a smile'

The above quote is from MKP Davies

What era are you living in MKP Davies? The police no longer have this kind of respect on any level (except perhaps in Trafalgar Sqaure) however, your opinion does reflect the fantasy of what people would like to see.

quote]

It is not a fantasy! I remember those times and would like to see them back. Unfortunately these days I haven't got much time for the police, they are a bit like Banks they hold an umbrella over you until it bloody rains!

Tony Bennett · 04-08-2006, 10:11 AM

Can anyone tell me if U.K.I.P. supports the continuation of ethnic quotas for the Police forces i.e. denying whites equal treatment in order to get enough ethnics into the Police force (e.g. 7% or 9% ethnic target I read about somewhere for the Metropolitan Police). I can't find any U.K.I.P. policy on that.

Also, what precisely does this mean, from your website, i.e. what is a 'Home Office placement'?:

Quote

Make Chief Constables and other senior officers directly accountable to local government and remove Home Office placements from police authorities.

Unquote

Btw, if you take a look on your website, this sentence is split in two with a blank line in between the two halves of it - and certainly makes no sense; whoever runs your website should be a bit more careful how they lay it out

One Londoner · 04-08-2006, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith Hand

Also, what precisely does this mean, from your website, i.e. what is a 'Home Office placement'?:

Quote

Make Chief Constables and other senior officers directly accountable to local government and remove Home Office placements from police authorities.

Unquote

I can't speak for UKIP, Keith, but I think the answer to your question about Home Office placements is that they are appointees onto police authorities by the Home Office. In the case of the Metropolitan Police Authority, there is one member directly appointed by the Home Office out of 23 members. See: http://www.mpa.gov.uk/about/members/default.htm

Chip · 17-08-2006, 02:57 PM

Just a point. Every able bodied man in Switzerland is in the army reserve and each one has to keep his weapons and ammunition at home. I can not remember at what age they do their basic training but once that has been done they have to have refresher courses every so often. I know this because a Swiss freind of mine has to comply and I have seen his rifle etc. kept in an unlocked chest in his bedroom.

View Poll Results: Should the death penalty be restored?
Yes, definitely	11	52.38%
Certainly not	5	23.81%
Yes for premeditated murder	0	0%
Yes for killing Police Officers	0	0%
Yes for premeditated murder and killing Police Officers	0	0%
I don't know - there should be a national referendum on bringing it back	5	23.81%
Voters: 21. You may not vote on this poll

03-08-2006, 12:46 AM	#14 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 31,028 Party: Libertarian Party	Errr, that's why I want it fixed to get back some of the respect being lost. Accepting they are just stormtroopers now is no solution. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

04-08-2006, 10:11 AM	#16 (permalink)
Tony Bennett Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,029	"Removing Home Office placements"???????? Can anyone tell me if U.K.I.P. supports the continuation of ethnic quotas for the Police forces i.e. denying whites equal treatment in order to get enough ethnics into the Police force (e.g. 7% or 9% ethnic target I read about somewhere for the Metropolitan Police). I can't find any U.K.I.P. policy on that. Also, what precisely does this mean, from your website, i.e. what is a 'Home Office placement'?: Quote Make Chief Constables and other senior officers directly accountable to local government and remove Home Office placements from police authorities. Unquote Btw, if you take a look on your website, this sentence is split in two with a blank line in between the two halves of it - and certainly makes no sense; whoever runs your website should be a bit more careful how they lay it out

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

02-08-2006, 09:57 PM	#11 (permalink)
Rosie Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Midlands Posts: 124	Whenever crime is discussed, the same old cureall of 'more bobbies on the beat' is requested. I work in the field of anti-social behaviour (amongst other things) and can assure you there are plenty of bobbies on the beat. First come the PCSO's, unsupervised and left to do their own thing, quite often to the detriment of the area they work in (by making assumptions based on rumour, gossiping with locals who provide a cuppa and giving a sense of security to people that does not exist). Next come the Community Beat Mangers. Their role lies somewhere between police officers, community development workers and social workers with a pinch of spin doctor thrown in (check your local freebie newspaper for good news police stories every week). No-one can be all these things and neither can the police. Then come the response teams, who are there to respond to 999 calls. Their response times and effectiveness depend on whether you are speaking to the victim or reading the newspaper article. The police, in my opinion, have no motivation anymore to deal with crime. This is not just because of masses of paperwork, but also due to the rapid promotion systems available which means that 'ticking boxes' and achieving nonsensical performance indicators becomes the reason for policing rather than crime solving. Lowering standards for entry to the police has not helped, some are barely literate This is only part of the problem as the legal system compounds the problem tenfold, but that is a separate topic. My point is that you can put as many bobbies on the beat as you want, but they need a clear, one dimensional role (i.e. to stop crime not act as social workers etc.), recruits who are up to the job, properly supervised with clear direction and support from top to bottom. The PCSOs also need retiring and replacing with properly trained police officers This is not happening and until it does crime will continue unabated.

03-08-2006, 12:40 AM	#13 (permalink)
Rosie Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Midlands Posts: 124	'I' don't totaly agree with this. The whole idea of "bobbies on the beat" isn't just to stop crime. It's about being their for the law abiding public. A great deal of respect for the police derives from them being seen as there for us. Asking them for directions, asking for help in other ways. All things that a patrol officer used to do, as a public servant without question and with a smile' The above quote is from MKP Davies What era are you living in MKP Davies? The police no longer have this kind of respect on any level (except perhaps in Trafalgar Sqaure) however, your opinion does reflect the fantasy of what people would like to see. Ask the family of Jean de Menezes and Walter Wolfgang how they perceive the police as a 'public service'.

03-08-2006, 02:13 AM	#15 (permalink)
kernow Uber Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 5,182	[quote="Rosie"]'I' don't totaly agree with this. The whole idea of "bobbies on the beat" isn't just to stop crime. It's about being their for the law abiding public. A great deal of respect for the police derives from them being seen as there for us. Asking them for directions, asking for help in other ways. All things that a patrol officer used to do, as a public servant without question and with a smile' The above quote is from MKP Davies What era are you living in MKP Davies? The police no longer have this kind of respect on any level (except perhaps in Trafalgar Sqaure) however, your opinion does reflect the fantasy of what people would like to see. quote] It is not a fantasy! I remember those times and would like to see them back. Unfortunately these days I haven't got much time for the police, they are a bit like Banks they hold an umbrella over you until it bloody rains!

17-08-2006, 02:57 PM	#18 (permalink)
Chip Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: North West UK Posts: 597	Just a point. Every able bodied man in Switzerland is in the army reserve and each one has to keep his weapons and ammunition at home. I can not remember at what age they do their basic training but once that has been done they have to have refresher courses every so often. I know this because a Swiss freind of mine has to comply and I have seen his rifle etc. kept in an unlocked chest in his bedroom.