london husting--what happened

mark starr · 31-07-2006, 04:57 PM

Nobody has commented re the London husting? What happened?

Bluemerle · 31-07-2006, 05:04 PM

About 100 turned up, mainly Farage supporters, some of whom rudely chatted when Richard was speaking. The questions were rigged in favour of NF.

mkpdavies · 31-07-2006, 05:20 PM

I am working on a report from a tape I did. Tape is of shocking quality, thus is not going on the web, but I will post up an unbiased (honest) report of what was said tonight.

Bottom line is Farage won, but Richard was his obious contender. Heavily pro-Farage audience, but with some support for Richard.

DCB came across as nice, but not a leader imho and if you have read his website, you will have a gist of his themes.

David Noakes isn't the screaming fruitcake some portray, but he focuses on the EU pressure group side of things and got there very late anyway.

Stay tuned tonight and I will post up a much more comprehensive report, without opinion.

Colin McNamee · 31-07-2006, 05:20 PM

Apart from Exeter have you not noticed that there has been very, very little info posted on this site following previous hustings ?

mkpdavies · 31-07-2006, 05:33 PM

That's because there was hardly anyone there!

You wait until tonight and you will see the mother of all posts for London.

mkpdavies · 31-07-2006, 09:50 PM

As promised.

Hustings report from the Emanuel centre in London, date 29/07/06

The venue was almost full at around 100 people. All four candidates were due to attend for the first time, but unfortunately David Noakes was held up and missed his 12 minute presentation slot. He did arrive to answer some of the questions however.

The other three candidates were all there, in the order of David Campbell Bannerman, Nigel Farage and Richard Suchorzewski. The Chairman was Lawrence Webb, with the BBC also in attendance.

On entering the hall, you found a number of pages of information waiting on your seat. David Campbell Bannerman, or DCB as he will be known from now, had a double-sided, black and white photocopy of information, taken it would seem mainly from his website www.dcb2win.org.

Likewise, Richard Suchorzewski, who I will name as Richard from now, had a double sided colour page, again taken mainly from his website www.richard4leader.co.uk
Richard also had a pamphlet that UKIP Wales put out to their membership.

Nigel Farage didn’t have any information, but for completeness, his website is www.votenigel.org

David Noakes had five sheets of information that he left on a table at the end of the presentations. All of them based on his website http://eutruth.org.uk , he also has a leadership website at http://www.vote-david.com/

Finally there was a generic poster/leaflet for UKIP, with a picture of David Cameron of Blue Labour, morphing into Tony Blair asking CHOICE,- WHAT CHOICE!

12 minute presentations

Each candidate was given 12 minutes to get their case across and this limit was adhered to strictly. Below is a summary of each the candidate’s points, with no comment given on delivery or audience reaction. There was no PA system, thus the candidates had to rely on the strength of their voices to get their message heard. After the presentations a mixture of written questions and off the cuff questions from the audience were fielded to the candidates.

David Campbell Bannerman

Commented on how apt it was that we were holding the meeting opposite the Home Office. Made the point that UKIP we’re against cash for visas, sex for visas and everything to do with our countries sham of an immigration policy.

He then went on to say the reason we were there, was to choose the right leader. A leader with the right political, business, and communications experience, to deliver a vision for UKIP over the next 4 years.

He asked if we wanted UKIP to continue to be seen as a single issue party, only capable of winning MEPs, but not MPs here in Britain. He questioned whether we wanted to fight every seat up and down Britain, or retreat back to being a single issue pressure group. Do we want to remain a one man party, run by a mobile phone in Brussels? Or do we want someone who gets serious, raises our game to include every members input?

If it was the latter, he suggested he was the only man who could make it happen. He would make UKIP professional, credible and effective at every level of politics. It’s time of UKIP to get it act together, as our country needs it to. Only then would we be able to realise the goal of leaving the EU.

He praised Nigel for hard work in Bromley, mentioned the £80 000 spent and the incredible work put in by the members. The 8% we achieved after all that though, simply wasn’t good enough.

He said 2/3 of British people agreed with UKIP, but that Bromley taught us that UKIP needed to look more credible and relevant to the people. To achieve this we needed to do the following.

Focus on independence, because the young believe it and they will get us out. He also believes that is what we all believe in, with freedom from government interference, though he suggested this could run along side the name of UKIP and our £ logo. Independence for all public services from targets etc.

Next he said we have to improve our communications, internally and externally so that we have a consistent message to go to the people with.

Market research is required, so that we understand why people are or are not voting for us. In all a more professional approach.

Management of the party is important, so we can build our membership and target our supporters with special events. 4 directors for policy, campaigns, communications and admin. Open up the part, not run it as a cabal.

Better training and sharing of good ideas. A 5 year party plan, not a business plan as UKIP isn’t a business, but the same sort of organisation to raise our game and attract funding. He claimed he had helped raise millions for charities in the past and that we had to do it now instead of relying on the same people all the time. All this without the hint of a peerage.

23 years experience of politics. Only candidate to service in government. Chairman of the Bowe group. A thinker and a strategist. Believes in us fighting local elections and empathised his track record of being a top 10 performer in the GE, saving his deposit and beating Veritas into fourth. Said he would listen to the membership and that he would make us professional, credible and a full policed party.

If you like this vision then it is right that you give him your support.

Richard Suchorzewski

Stated that David had said some very good things in his speech, but that it was not just words that were needed in this party, but action. He claimed that it had been action that had been mission from this party in recent years.

Said like David, he had spent 24 years in the Conservative party and had been misguided by their in Europe, not run by Europe claim. He then joined UKIP, as the only party serious about getting us out of the European Union.

We were on a roll, knocking the Lib Dems into fourth and obtaining 12 MEPs in the EU parliament. Our membership was at an all time high of 30 000. Little did he realise that that roll was going down hill.

Why did UKIP have 500 candidates in the election, but did not achieve one single seat?

Worse than that we didn’t come close in any seat, even with excellent people working hard in all areas.

Then came the local elections, with just one single seat won and another one lost.

Why is this?

Moved on to the recent Bromley election and praised Nigel for his efforts. He questioned that anyone could have tried harder than Nigel. Despite this though, despite £80 000 and the shipping in of hundreds of volunteers, we achieved just 8% in an environment that is favourable to us.

Why? Because we have failed, we have failed, we have failed! That’s easy to say, but why did we fail and how to we correct it.

Professionalism, he gave some recent examples of our main website putting out incorrect information about when our candidates would appear on the radio. Then went on to tell of our candidate in the Dartford by-election, getting a nomination from the BNP candidate. Said this was an accident, yes, but that it wasn’t very competent was it.

Read a note from Jonathon Arncott, saying UKIP spent £80 000 on Bromley, but that for the local elections a budget of just £800 was available. He said we would not win by coming in at the last minute in elections and throwing everything at it then. Like a car you can push a car hard, but it doesn’t go, because there is no petrol, the break is on and the wheels have been stolen and we didn’t realise it. Suggested this is how we approach elections in this country, nothing for ages then a huge push when it is too late.

We have to plan ahead and have trained people in place to be effective,

Says we are seen as a one issue party, that we want to pull out of the EU. That was a key reason he joined and that it was the one issue that unites us. We are a very wide church.

Went on to say about Nigel speaking on this issue, saying we are not a church and that we all need to play. He says to Nigel, the time for playing is over. We are at the point where we have to get out of the EU before 2009, or it could be too late. We have to be more serious.

We are seen as a one man party, a great man, a man of charisma and the defacto leader so far in Nigel Farage. He has his utmost respect. Says you do not put your best salesman in charge, you put him out there to sell. That is why he believes UKIP should have a different leader than Nigel and a stronger leader than DCB.

He wants members involved in policy making and decision making, not him dictating, but with the leaders showing the way. A move away from a single issue party, to a party with full policies and a full shadow cabinet, instead of relying on one person (points to Nigel) and suggests it unfair on him.

Also, the NEC structure is changed to make it fairer on all of the (joke about swearing) regions of UKIP. So that each region has chairman on the NEC, so that each area has a person responsible to them.

Announced Petrina Holdsworth as his deputy leader, if he was elected. Said she will be responsible for raiding 1 million pounds for the party in her first year. Said Alan Bown had been abused, by UKIP not having more streams.

Asked how many people were under 30, (hardly anyone put their hand up). Says this is another problem that we have with the party. We need new blood. He asked it youthkip was going to be stared or not at Xmas. Said Nigel promised to have something set up by end of February, yet now at the end of July and still nothing. Says he would make it a priority. Says if they don’t come in, then the party will die with the existing membership.

Says he will ensure the biggest travesty that could happen won’t happen, by UKIP achieving EU withdrawal, only to hand the country straight back to the parties who took us there in the first place. With his leadership and proper training of our members, that will not happen.

Nigel Farage

4 years ago the leadership of UKIP was a poison chalice, with just one candidate willing to run. We now have a political vacuum, as you can’t put a cigarette paper between Labour, the Tories or Lib Dems on the big issues of today. The question and challenge is how to reinvigorate this party and regain the credibility of this party.

He wants to make it clear (especially to Richard) that his role was to run the party and lead the party in the European Parliament in Brussels. He said he had nothing to do with the executive control or managerial control of the party. He is right to say some things have gone wrong since 2004, but that general elections under first past the post, are much tougher.

Believes we have to reprioritise what UKIP is about, as he thinks we have forgotten. He says he knows, because he was there right at the start. This being we should fight elections, by taking votes and getting people elected. Said that NEC meeting after NEC meeting we got bogged down. Said the last two leaders of UKIP, very decent men, got bogged down in the internal issues of a political party. Fighting elections must be made our number 1 priority.

Announces Steve Allison, as someone who knocked the Tories and Labour into fourth place and our only elected councillor this year, as someone he respects and as his new election campaign director. Says he understands how to organise and manage and will get the funds and the executive authority to do other things.

Then went on to say our local election campaign this year was a complete and utter shambles. Says we can’t just expect to turn up at the last minute and win and expects Steve to call all the Regional organisers together after he is elected, to start immediate planning for the future. Targets to be set and accountability brought into this party, which is desperately needed.

Then the chairman of the party will be freed up to do the day to day running of the party. Says the job is impossible at the moment, as there is too much to do. Also says that members have no idea who to ring when they have problems. Says we need a general secretary full time in the head office for this.

Makes it clear that he will not be a manager. He is not looking to be chairman of the party again. He will be a leader. Says we get our message through, by using the media. Says he is often asked the question; can you be an MEP and a leader at the same time? In an idea world no! But UKIP doesn’t have MPs or anyone in the House of Lords. Point is, you can’t have a leader of Britain’s fourth political party, that hasn’t been elected to anything.

Doesn’t matter how good they are, they just won’t get the same media attention as someone who is will. Thus he says the leader has to be one of our MEPs. Says the reason the media comes to him, is because he has made himself available for the last decade. It would be bad having a leader ignored by the media because of this. Agrees with DCB widening our policy base, as David Cameron has totally abandoned Conservative values.

Dare not talk about immigration; no one talks about smaller government with less control, great opportunities for UKIP, if we have candidates ready and the funds to fight elections.

Pleased that Alan Bown is his proposer, as from his own free will has donated over 1 million pounds to UKIP (well with arm twisting on a couple of occasions). *asks Alan to stand up to applause*. Also Paul Sykes gave 2 million, who I recruited. Says he stands before us on his record, as the only person who has brought in major funds to the party. Suggests other candidates proposals may or may not work.

Believes that in the world of politics and sport, that he can get some big name celebrities back into the party. Says look what you have to thank me for! I brought in Robert Kilroy Silk. Above all he offers himself as leader, as he believes from his experience in the EU parliament, leading the MEPs (likened to herding cats) and he has the utter commitment and dedication, proven by a decade of work, to take it further as leader.

Questions and answers session

1. (To Richard). Brought up the pictures of Richard standing with various Tory traitors throughout his time with the Tories, pictured on his website, and asked why should UKIP members trust him?

Richard admits that in his 24 years, that he had access to all levels of the Conservative party. Says that was the party he was in and was misled by. Agrees that he was fooled, but that met and mixed with the highest levels of the political genre. Says he realises now that John Major is a traitor and certainly doesn’t support them today. Says he will talk to anyone, no matter what their views.

2. (to all) Will the person elected as leader, use the talents of other candidates to best advantage.

DCB talks of using every ones talents and working as a team, fully united after the election.

Richard says the people on the table, and those that are absent all have talents. However, he is concerned that if he is not elected leader, there will be no party left. Says he isn’t a better salesman than Nigel Farage, but that he wants to clone him to have more people to attack with. Says DCB would be totally suited to research as his strength. His biggest concern is many people with talent have almost been told to go away. Says the party is rich with commitment, but at the top we think we know it all.

Nigel says as long as the election continues in a noble, decent and sensible manner, then it would be crazy not to use candidate’s talents. Kips mistake is that people who stand for election to the NEC should decide all this, as no business is run by a group of people who meet once a month. Use all members’ talents across UKIP.

3. How much money have you individually raised within UKIP?

Richard starts by saying he has been in the party for two years. Says and says he inherited a shambles in UKIP Wales. He said the reason for this, was the people involved at the top did not have a clue. Says he spent the year he reorganised it, so that he has a fully funded office for 18 months, got on board a much better Regional Organiser. He states what is the point in raising money, just to throw it into a black hole. Says he has not raised enormous sums so far for the party, but that he soon will, with the help of other will continue to do so.

Says Nigel said he had introduced the major fund raisers in the party, but with the exception of Alan Bown, they had all gone. The reason being that people will not keep throwing money into the black hole that is UKIP, so this needs sorting out first.

Nigel starts by asking why there is no UKIP stand at the Royal Welsh show, even though it is the last one before the Welsh Assembly question. (Richard says we have representatives to which Nigel says, yes but no stand). He goes on to say you have to be judged by your track record. Goes onto Paul Sykes and says Paul said it was Nigel that got him to donate. Suggests that Sykes will come back and donate to UKIP again, as there is no other choice out there. Nigel says we have to get out there and get more, suggests that Tory donors are the obvious place to go and that he will target these people who are disillusioned with Cameron.

DCB says he has raised several thousand and was involved with the Bromley campaign. Says he has worked with professional fund raisers and says we need pros to help us tap into people like Bill Gates who gives 30 billion a year. He says this professional approach is the only way we can do this.

4. Should we stand against known euro sceptics, such as people who signed the Better Off Out campaign by the Freedom Association?

Nigel says it’s a debate that has raged in UKIP. Says he doesn’t agree UKIP can’t contest all seats and suggests that we have 300 candidates adopted ready by spring, ready to campaign much earlier.

Says Euro sceptic is not the right term, as he has no doubt, should be Euro Realist. Says that it is easier to see who is seriously a Euro Realist now, with the BOO declaration. Says UKIP should target it’s firepower on over 600 seats where people hadn’t signed the declaration.

DCB says these people (especially in the Tories) will be standing on the Conservative manifesto. Says UKIP can’t be a pick and mix party and must stand in every seat we can. Says we should stand candidates against BOO candidates, but not throw resources at them. Says this makes us a serious political party and is a happy balance.

Richard says it depends what our resources are like at the time. Believes that with him and Petrina, that we will have the resources to fight every seat and effectively. However if we don’t have the resources, then we should target the resource in the most effective way. Says that after 24 years of lies from the Tories, he finds it hard to trust them when they say they are a Euro sceptic. Suggests if they are willing to lose the whip over the issue, then he may consider not standing against them.

Nigel comes back; saying clear blue water has emerged. Says he admires the MPs that have signed the BOO declaration, while wishing they had jumped over to UKIP. Says as leader he will try and make that happen. Says we should be grateful that 9 people are speaking UKIPs language and that he would have nothing to do with a party that chose to stand against them.

5. Why is our HQ not in London and why is the conference not in London?

DCB, says Lexdrum house is a back office and that we are looking to acquire a small London office for meetings, etc and says it’s important. Says he wanted the conference in London, but it went to Telford. Says the launch of the new leader will be in London, for media purposes. Suggests that London could be considered again after Scarborough.

Richard says Lexdrum House is a very efficient back office, with volunteers going in and making it work. Recent we don’t have a London office, is we have no money to do it, despite DCB and Nigel’s contacts for funds to afford major premises. Though he does like the idea of the conference moving around, to give representation to all of the parties areas, after all we are the UKIP, not the London Democrat Party.

Until we start raising real funds, we have to make best use of the resources we have got.

Nigel says it is easy to get to for all of our members, just a couple of hours from Leeds. Says the conference should be in London for the media, but that our head office can be anywhere and that it doesn’t matter, but that the party does need an office of some sort in London, for the media etc.

David Noakes Arrives (apologises)

(To Richard) Asks how Richard can get past in a year, Nigel achievements over ten years, including members recruited and funds from people like Alan Bown, when no one knows him?

Richard asks everyone to ask the UKIP people all over Britain if they know him and suggests that even in the South East people know him too. Says that’s why he wanted more than one hustings in London and that other Chairman said the same. Said that fame helps, but that tenacity, experience and sheer hard work and good strategic planning and thinking help more. Says that Nigel is our best spokesman and most well known member. Suggests that our party is not the same as other parties though, as they are already well organised and we are not. Says there leadership may be rubbish, but they are well organises. Says that we are the opposite, with leadership with the right ideas, but with terrible organisation.

Says that he will turn this party around in one year and that if he is successful or not, he will allow himself to go before a vote of confidence, so that he can be judged by the membership to make sure we are on the right track. Says he would be surprised that any of the MEPs would say they would leave if Richard became leader and suggested they were not patriots if they did.

Questioner asked where Richards track record to back that up.

Richard held up the Welsh organisation in his year in charge there. He also pointed to his achievements at the conservative party, where membership was almost at record highs under his watch.

Nigel asked why people think being well known is an advantage?

6. What is the party going to do to make it’s accounts transparent, to make the members confident that their money isn’t being poured down a black hole?

Nigel suggests some people have stirred up this issue to cause trouble. Says that our accounts have been professionally audited and prepared and approved by the electoral commission on their website. He suggests our communication with members is the real issue. Says Independent News is a confused publication and says that every member should get our audited accounts every year to stop the rumours.

David Noakes states that our accounts will not be ready until after the leadership election and that the people involved should face a vote of confidence at our annual conference.

DCB talks about issues surrounding Ashford, but suggests this should be looked through at our annual business meeting. Says he acted with the NEC to shut down Ashford and said it was the right thing to do, as Lexdrum had proved.

Richard said transparency was key. Said we should not have anything to hide. Suggested all this kind of thing should be on a member’s only website, for all to see. Says his experience on the NEC was not good and that the treasurer left his post and wouldn’t answer questions afterwards, when they wanted to hold the accounts to scrutiny. He says he wanted more transparency so that people couldn’t hide behind collective responsibility.

7. Who was responsible for the split with Veritas(other than Kilroy) and would their members be allowed back?

Richard says if we do not restructure the party and organised, then a lot more members would leave, never mind attracting the old ones back. Suggested a leader would have to get his hands dirty on this to make it happen.

Nigel said splits always happen and UKIP had more than it’s fair share. Spoke about old splits (Reform UK) and Veritas actually cleaning UKIP out and good riddance to bad rubbish. Says that Derek Clarke had drawn up a blacklist for people we won’t have back, but not all people were bad and that they would could come back. Suggested that some people complained at everything, that he would rather they were outside the tent, rather than inside.

David Noakes said that there were some people we didn’t want back. Says that RKS brought great publicity, but he was not very astute and was glad that he wasn’t leader. Said most people who went just despaired at the inaction within UKIP and that he understood why very good activists went to Veritas and that we wanted those people back.

DCB says he wasn’t chairman at the time, but says it was down to a lack of activity and that a full manifesto of policies would have helped. Agreed with what the other said, but wants unity and for all this to be put behind us under a new leader.

Nigel came back, saying Kilroy would only accept leader of the World and said that Knapman had not been effective of late as he was tired and had enough, but that he and his wife had done a lot for UKIP (100%), but said overall that we should thank Roger Knapman.

Richard came back and says that Nigel introduced RKS who wanted to rule the world, but that position was reserved for Nigel (said it was joke). Then went on to say that you vet the people that you bring in, to prevent more Kilroy experiences..

8. What are your views of the actions of Hamas, Hezbollah and the Israeli defence forces?

David Noakes says he was horrified at the brutality out there. Made the point that for every one Israeli killed, 10 Lebanese were. He said he shocked at the brutality of the Israeli government. He said that Bush was a warmonger and had encouraged the Israelis to do it. He suggested that Hezbollah were reacting to Israeli’s bulldozing their towns. (Member of the audience says they shouldn’t throw rockets into Israel). David says that is down to desperation and says the UN should go in.

DCB says he was involved in the Northern Ireland peace process and said that that diplomatic process had to take over and that it could not be solved by military means. Says he it isn’t acceptable that Israel should hit Lebanese infrastructure, but that the terrorists who fired missiles into civilian populations were legitimate targets. Made the point that common ground and political solutions had to be found.

(At this point my tape ran out, so the rest is from notes)

Richard says this is a solution that requires the UN to go in that both side have to take a step back. While Hezbollah started the current problems with the kidnapping of two soldiers, Israel had over reacted and should show more restraint.

Nigel disapproved of the Israeli response and said British politicians had been almost silent on the issue. Stated that the EU was speaking on our behalf on the issue, which was a disgrace. Also said people have to recognise that the state of Iraq was now proving to be a disaster in the overall picture.

9. What do you think about British Union and the state that it is in?

DCB said he was in favour of the Union, but believes we should fight regional elections.

Richard says we should remain a party for the whole UK, but that he differed from some in that UKIP should be fighting against having separate national assemblies.

Nigel questioned Scotland’s position in the U.K and said that it was crackpot to want independence from the U.K, but stay subservient to the EU. Believes that fighting elections in Scotland, when the results of late have been poor, is a waste of resource. Says we should go hell for leather in the Welsh Assembly elections though.

David Noakes made the point that regionalisation is the way that EU is dividing and conquering the nation and that we should have no part in helping it.

10. How many hours per week will you put in as leader?

Richard says he will be full time, with a full team supporting him too. Also re-mentions the confidence check after one year.

Nigel says he will remain an MEP to get the media coverage, meaning some of the time he will be in the EU, also suggested that time to play was also important. He said he would spend 6-7 days in the EU parliament per month, some of which would not be pure EU politics but UK matters. He went on to to add that he would put in 100 hours per week.

David Noakes said he would give 100%, everything he had just as we all should.

DCB says he was already full time, but that his plan would be working with Nigel in the EU, thus we were getting two leaders for the price of one.

I didn’t catch some of the wash up, so will not report this here.

michael mcgough · 31-07-2006, 10:13 PM

Thanks for this Matt--much appreciated

kernow · 31-07-2006, 10:17 PM

Well done Matt good reporting, sounded much like how Exeter went!
I was going choose Richard as leader before the hustings and the hustings confirmed my choice!

B.A.Ware · 01-08-2006, 12:11 AM

Well done Matt bet your fingers are sore now. :P

mkpdavies · 01-08-2006, 12:36 AM

Yep. I am going to tidy it up though and will see if various places want it for their newsletter.

I am already getting bits of feedback, where people think I have missed a bit, or wasn't 100% fair.

31-07-2006, 04:57 PM	#1 (permalink)
mark starr Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 642	london husting--what happened Nobody has commented re the London husting? What happened?

31-07-2006, 05:20 PM	#3 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 31,038 Party: Libertarian Party	I am working on a report from a tape I did. Tape is of shocking quality, thus is not going on the web, but I will post up an unbiased (honest) report of what was said tonight. Bottom line is Farage won, but Richard was his obious contender. Heavily pro-Farage audience, but with some support for Richard. DCB came across as nice, but not a leader imho and if you have read his website, you will have a gist of his themes. David Noakes isn't the screaming fruitcake some portray, but he focuses on the EU pressure group side of things and got there very late anyway. Stay tuned tonight and I will post up a much more comprehensive report, without opinion. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

31-07-2006, 05:33 PM	#5 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 31,038 Party: Libertarian Party	That's because there was hardly anyone there! You wait until tonight and you will see the mother of all posts for London. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

31-07-2006, 09:50 PM	#6 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 31,038 Party: Libertarian Party	As promised. Hustings report from the Emanuel centre in London, date 29/07/06 The venue was almost full at around 100 people. All four candidates were due to attend for the first time, but unfortunately David Noakes was held up and missed his 12 minute presentation slot. He did arrive to answer some of the questions however. The other three candidates were all there, in the order of David Campbell Bannerman, Nigel Farage and Richard Suchorzewski. The Chairman was Lawrence Webb, with the BBC also in attendance. On entering the hall, you found a number of pages of information waiting on your seat. David Campbell Bannerman, or DCB as he will be known from now, had a double-sided, black and white photocopy of information, taken it would seem mainly from his website www.dcb2win.org. Likewise, Richard Suchorzewski, who I will name as Richard from now, had a double sided colour page, again taken mainly from his website www.richard4leader.co.uk Richard also had a pamphlet that UKIP Wales put out to their membership. Nigel Farage didn’t have any information, but for completeness, his website is www.votenigel.org David Noakes had five sheets of information that he left on a table at the end of the presentations. All of them based on his website http://eutruth.org.uk , he also has a leadership website at http://www.vote-david.com/ Finally there was a generic poster/leaflet for UKIP, with a picture of David Cameron of Blue Labour, morphing into Tony Blair asking CHOICE,- WHAT CHOICE! 12 minute presentations Each candidate was given 12 minutes to get their case across and this limit was adhered to strictly. Below is a summary of each the candidate’s points, with no comment given on delivery or audience reaction. There was no PA system, thus the candidates had to rely on the strength of their voices to get their message heard. After the presentations a mixture of written questions and off the cuff questions from the audience were fielded to the candidates. David Campbell Bannerman Commented on how apt it was that we were holding the meeting opposite the Home Office. Made the point that UKIP we’re against cash for visas, sex for visas and everything to do with our countries sham of an immigration policy. He then went on to say the reason we were there, was to choose the right leader. A leader with the right political, business, and communications experience, to deliver a vision for UKIP over the next 4 years. He asked if we wanted UKIP to continue to be seen as a single issue party, only capable of winning MEPs, but not MPs here in Britain. He questioned whether we wanted to fight every seat up and down Britain, or retreat back to being a single issue pressure group. Do we want to remain a one man party, run by a mobile phone in Brussels? Or do we want someone who gets serious, raises our game to include every members input? If it was the latter, he suggested he was the only man who could make it happen. He would make UKIP professional, credible and effective at every level of politics. It’s time of UKIP to get it act together, as our country needs it to. Only then would we be able to realise the goal of leaving the EU. He praised Nigel for hard work in Bromley, mentioned the £80 000 spent and the incredible work put in by the members. The 8% we achieved after all that though, simply wasn’t good enough. He said 2/3 of British people agreed with UKIP, but that Bromley taught us that UKIP needed to look more credible and relevant to the people. To achieve this we needed to do the following. Focus on independence, because the young believe it and they will get us out. He also believes that is what we all believe in, with freedom from government interference, though he suggested this could run along side the name of UKIP and our £ logo. Independence for all public services from targets etc. Next he said we have to improve our communications, internally and externally so that we have a consistent message to go to the people with. Market research is required, so that we understand why people are or are not voting for us. In all a more professional approach. Management of the party is important, so we can build our membership and target our supporters with special events. 4 directors for policy, campaigns, communications and admin. Open up the part, not run it as a cabal. Better training and sharing of good ideas. A 5 year party plan, not a business plan as UKIP isn’t a business, but the same sort of organisation to raise our game and attract funding. He claimed he had helped raise millions for charities in the past and that we had to do it now instead of relying on the same people all the time. All this without the hint of a peerage. 23 years experience of politics. Only candidate to service in government. Chairman of the Bowe group. A thinker and a strategist. Believes in us fighting local elections and empathised his track record of being a top 10 performer in the GE, saving his deposit and beating Veritas into fourth. Said he would listen to the membership and that he would make us professional, credible and a full policed party. If you like this vision then it is right that you give him your support. Richard Suchorzewski Stated that David had said some very good things in his speech, but that it was not just words that were needed in this party, but action. He claimed that it had been action that had been mission from this party in recent years. Said like David, he had spent 24 years in the Conservative party and had been misguided by their in Europe, not run by Europe claim. He then joined UKIP, as the only party serious about getting us out of the European Union. We were on a roll, knocking the Lib Dems into fourth and obtaining 12 MEPs in the EU parliament. Our membership was at an all time high of 30 000. Little did he realise that that roll was going down hill. Why did UKIP have 500 candidates in the election, but did not achieve one single seat? Worse than that we didn’t come close in any seat, even with excellent people working hard in all areas. Then came the local elections, with just one single seat won and another one lost. Why is this? Moved on to the recent Bromley election and praised Nigel for his efforts. He questioned that anyone could have tried harder than Nigel. Despite this though, despite £80 000 and the shipping in of hundreds of volunteers, we achieved just 8% in an environment that is favourable to us. Why? Because we have failed, we have failed, we have failed! That’s easy to say, but why did we fail and how to we correct it. Professionalism, he gave some recent examples of our main website putting out incorrect information about when our candidates would appear on the radio. Then went on to tell of our candidate in the Dartford by-election, getting a nomination from the BNP candidate. Said this was an accident, yes, but that it wasn’t very competent was it. Read a note from Jonathon Arncott, saying UKIP spent £80 000 on Bromley, but that for the local elections a budget of just £800 was available. He said we would not win by coming in at the last minute in elections and throwing everything at it then. Like a car you can push a car hard, but it doesn’t go, because there is no petrol, the break is on and the wheels have been stolen and we didn’t realise it. Suggested this is how we approach elections in this country, nothing for ages then a huge push when it is too late. We have to plan ahead and have trained people in place to be effective, Says we are seen as a one issue party, that we want to pull out of the EU. That was a key reason he joined and that it was the one issue that unites us. We are a very wide church. Went on to say about Nigel speaking on this issue, saying we are not a church and that we all need to play. He says to Nigel, the time for playing is over. We are at the point where we have to get out of the EU before 2009, or it could be too late. We have to be more serious. We are seen as a one man party, a great man, a man of charisma and the defacto leader so far in Nigel Farage. He has his utmost respect. Says you do not put your best salesman in charge, you put him out there to sell. That is why he believes UKIP should have a different leader than Nigel and a stronger leader than DCB. He wants members involved in policy making and decision making, not him dictating, but with the leaders showing the way. A move away from a single issue party, to a party with full policies and a full shadow cabinet, instead of relying on one person (points to Nigel) and suggests it unfair on him. Also, the NEC structure is changed to make it fairer on all of the (joke about swearing) regions of UKIP. So that each region has chairman on the NEC, so that each area has a person responsible to them. Announced Petrina Holdsworth as his deputy leader, if he was elected. Said she will be responsible for raiding 1 million pounds for the party in her first year. Said Alan Bown had been abused, by UKIP not having more streams. Asked how many people were under 30, (hardly anyone put their hand up). Says this is another problem that we have with the party. We need new blood. He asked it youthkip was going to be stared or not at Xmas. Said Nigel promised to have something set up by end of February, yet now at the end of July and still nothing. Says he would make it a priority. Says if they don’t come in, then the party will die with the existing membership. Says he will ensure the biggest travesty that could happen won’t happen, by UKIP achieving EU withdrawal, only to hand the country straight back to the parties who took us there in the first place. With his leadership and proper training of our members, that will not happen. Nigel Farage 4 years ago the leadership of UKIP was a poison chalice, with just one candidate willing to run. We now have a political vacuum, as you can’t put a cigarette paper between Labour, the Tories or Lib Dems on the big issues of today. The question and challenge is how to reinvigorate this party and regain the credibility of this party. He wants to make it clear (especially to Richard) that his role was to run the party and lead the party in the European Parliament in Brussels. He said he had nothing to do with the executive control or managerial control of the party. He is right to say some things have gone wrong since 2004, but that general elections under first past the post, are much tougher. Believes we have to reprioritise what UKIP is about, as he thinks we have forgotten. He says he knows, because he was there right at the start. This being we should fight elections, by taking votes and getting people elected. Said that NEC meeting after NEC meeting we got bogged down. Said the last two leaders of UKIP, very decent men, got bogged down in the internal issues of a political party. Fighting elections must be made our number 1 priority. Announces Steve Allison, as someone who knocked the Tories and Labour into fourth place and our only elected councillor this year, as someone he respects and as his new election campaign director. Says he understands how to organise and manage and will get the funds and the executive authority to do other things. Then went on to say our local election campaign this year was a complete and utter shambles. Says we can’t just expect to turn up at the last minute and win and expects Steve to call all the Regional organisers together after he is elected, to start immediate planning for the future. Targets to be set and accountability brought into this party, which is desperately needed. Then the chairman of the party will be freed up to do the day to day running of the party. Says the job is impossible at the moment, as there is too much to do. Also says that members have no idea who to ring when they have problems. Says we need a general secretary full time in the head office for this. Makes it clear that he will not be a manager. He is not looking to be chairman of the party again. He will be a leader. Says we get our message through, by using the media. Says he is often asked the question; can you be an MEP and a leader at the same time? In an idea world no! But UKIP doesn’t have MPs or anyone in the House of Lords. Point is, you can’t have a leader of Britain’s fourth political party, that hasn’t been elected to anything. Doesn’t matter how good they are, they just won’t get the same media attention as someone who is will. Thus he says the leader has to be one of our MEPs. Says the reason the media comes to him, is because he has made himself available for the last decade. It would be bad having a leader ignored by the media because of this. Agrees with DCB widening our policy base, as David Cameron has totally abandoned Conservative values. Dare not talk about immigration; no one talks about smaller government with less control, great opportunities for UKIP, if we have candidates ready and the funds to fight elections. Pleased that Alan Bown is his proposer, as from his own free will has donated over 1 million pounds to UKIP (well with arm twisting on a couple of occasions). asks Alan to stand up to applause. Also Paul Sykes gave 2 million, who I recruited. Says he stands before us on his record, as the only person who has brought in major funds to the party. Suggests other candidates proposals may or may not work. Believes that in the world of politics and sport, that he can get some big name celebrities back into the party. Says look what you have to thank me for! I brought in Robert Kilroy Silk. Above all he offers himself as leader, as he believes from his experience in the EU parliament, leading the MEPs (likened to herding cats) and he has the utter commitment and dedication, proven by a decade of work, to take it further as leader. Questions and answers session 1. (To Richard). Brought up the pictures of Richard standing with various Tory traitors throughout his time with the Tories, pictured on his website, and asked why should UKIP members trust him? Richard admits that in his 24 years, that he had access to all levels of the Conservative party. Says that was the party he was in and was misled by. Agrees that he was fooled, but that met and mixed with the highest levels of the political genre. Says he realises now that John Major is a traitor and certainly doesn’t support them today. Says he will talk to anyone, no matter what their views. 2. (to all) Will the person elected as leader, use the talents of other candidates to best advantage. DCB talks of using every ones talents and working as a team, fully united after the election. Richard says the people on the table, and those that are absent all have talents. However, he is concerned that if he is not elected leader, there will be no party left. Says he isn’t a better salesman than Nigel Farage, but that he wants to clone him to have more people to attack with. Says DCB would be totally suited to research as his strength. His biggest concern is many people with talent have almost been told to go away. Says the party is rich with commitment, but at the top we think we know it all. Nigel says as long as the election continues in a noble, decent and sensible manner, then it would be crazy not to use candidate’s talents. Kips mistake is that people who stand for election to the NEC should decide all this, as no business is run by a group of people who meet once a month. Use all members’ talents across UKIP. 3. How much money have you individually raised within UKIP? Richard starts by saying he has been in the party for two years. Says and says he inherited a shambles in UKIP Wales. He said the reason for this, was the people involved at the top did not have a clue. Says he spent the year he reorganised it, so that he has a fully funded office for 18 months, got on board a much better Regional Organiser. He states what is the point in raising money, just to throw it into a black hole. Says he has not raised enormous sums so far for the party, but that he soon will, with the help of other will continue to do so. Says Nigel said he had introduced the major fund raisers in the party, but with the exception of Alan Bown, they had all gone. The reason being that people will not keep throwing money into the black hole that is UKIP, so this needs sorting out first. Nigel starts by asking why there is no UKIP stand at the Royal Welsh show, even though it is the last one before the Welsh Assembly question. (Richard says we have representatives to which Nigel says, yes but no stand). He goes on to say you have to be judged by your track record. Goes onto Paul Sykes and says Paul said it was Nigel that got him to donate. Suggests that Sykes will come back and donate to UKIP again, as there is no other choice out there. Nigel says we have to get out there and get more, suggests that Tory donors are the obvious place to go and that he will target these people who are disillusioned with Cameron. DCB says he has raised several thousand and was involved with the Bromley campaign. Says he has worked with professional fund raisers and says we need pros to help us tap into people like Bill Gates who gives 30 billion a year. He says this professional approach is the only way we can do this. 4. Should we stand against known euro sceptics, such as people who signed the Better Off Out campaign by the Freedom Association? Nigel says it’s a debate that has raged in UKIP. Says he doesn’t agree UKIP can’t contest all seats and suggests that we have 300 candidates adopted ready by spring, ready to campaign much earlier. Says Euro sceptic is not the right term, as he has no doubt, should be Euro Realist. Says that it is easier to see who is seriously a Euro Realist now, with the BOO declaration. Says UKIP should target it’s firepower on over 600 seats where people hadn’t signed the declaration. DCB says these people (especially in the Tories) will be standing on the Conservative manifesto. Says UKIP can’t be a pick and mix party and must stand in every seat we can. Says we should stand candidates against BOO candidates, but not throw resources at them. Says this makes us a serious political party and is a happy balance. Richard says it depends what our resources are like at the time. Believes that with him and Petrina, that we will have the resources to fight every seat and effectively. However if we don’t have the resources, then we should target the resource in the most effective way. Says that after 24 years of lies from the Tories, he finds it hard to trust them when they say they are a Euro sceptic. Suggests if they are willing to lose the whip over the issue, then he may consider not standing against them. Nigel comes back; saying clear blue water has emerged. Says he admires the MPs that have signed the BOO declaration, while wishing they had jumped over to UKIP. Says as leader he will try and make that happen. Says we should be grateful that 9 people are speaking UKIPs language and that he would have nothing to do with a party that chose to stand against them. 5. Why is our HQ not in London and why is the conference not in London? DCB, says Lexdrum house is a back office and that we are looking to acquire a small London office for meetings, etc and says it’s important. Says he wanted the conference in London, but it went to Telford. Says the launch of the new leader will be in London, for media purposes. Suggests that London could be considered again after Scarborough. Richard says Lexdrum House is a very efficient back office, with volunteers going in and making it work. Recent we don’t have a London office, is we have no money to do it, despite DCB and Nigel’s contacts for funds to afford major premises. Though he does like the idea of the conference moving around, to give representation to all of the parties areas, after all we are the UKIP, not the London Democrat Party. Until we start raising real funds, we have to make best use of the resources we have got. Nigel says it is easy to get to for all of our members, just a couple of hours from Leeds. Says the conference should be in London for the media, but that our head office can be anywhere and that it doesn’t matter, but that the party does need an office of some sort in London, for the media etc. David Noakes Arrives (apologises) (To Richard) Asks how Richard can get past in a year, Nigel achievements over ten years, including members recruited and funds from people like Alan Bown, when no one knows him? Richard asks everyone to ask the UKIP people all over Britain if they know him and suggests that even in the South East people know him too. Says that’s why he wanted more than one hustings in London and that other Chairman said the same. Said that fame helps, but that tenacity, experience and sheer hard work and good strategic planning and thinking help more. Says that Nigel is our best spokesman and most well known member. Suggests that our party is not the same as other parties though, as they are already well organised and we are not. Says there leadership may be rubbish, but they are well organises. Says that we are the opposite, with leadership with the right ideas, but with terrible organisation. Says that he will turn this party around in one year and that if he is successful or not, he will allow himself to go before a vote of confidence, so that he can be judged by the membership to make sure we are on the right track. Says he would be surprised that any of the MEPs would say they would leave if Richard became leader and suggested they were not patriots if they did. Questioner asked where Richards track record to back that up. Richard held up the Welsh organisation in his year in charge there. He also pointed to his achievements at the conservative party, where membership was almost at record highs under his watch. Nigel asked why people think being well known is an advantage? 6. What is the party going to do to make it’s accounts transparent, to make the members confident that their money isn’t being poured down a black hole? Nigel suggests some people have stirred up this issue to cause trouble. Says that our accounts have been professionally audited and prepared and approved by the electoral commission on their website. He suggests our communication with members is the real issue. Says Independent News is a confused publication and says that every member should get our audited accounts every year to stop the rumours. David Noakes states that our accounts will not be ready until after the leadership election and that the people involved should face a vote of confidence at our annual conference. DCB talks about issues surrounding Ashford, but suggests this should be looked through at our annual business meeting. Says he acted with the NEC to shut down Ashford and said it was the right thing to do, as Lexdrum had proved. Richard said transparency was key. Said we should not have anything to hide. Suggested all this kind of thing should be on a member’s only website, for all to see. Says his experience on the NEC was not good and that the treasurer left his post and wouldn’t answer questions afterwards, when they wanted to hold the accounts to scrutiny. He says he wanted more transparency so that people couldn’t hide behind collective responsibility. 7. Who was responsible for the split with Veritas(other than Kilroy) and would their members be allowed back? Richard says if we do not restructure the party and organised, then a lot more members would leave, never mind attracting the old ones back. Suggested a leader would have to get his hands dirty on this to make it happen. Nigel said splits always happen and UKIP had more than it’s fair share. Spoke about old splits (Reform UK) and Veritas actually cleaning UKIP out and good riddance to bad rubbish. Says that Derek Clarke had drawn up a blacklist for people we won’t have back, but not all people were bad and that they would could come back. Suggested that some people complained at everything, that he would rather they were outside the tent, rather than inside. David Noakes said that there were some people we didn’t want back. Says that RKS brought great publicity, but he was not very astute and was glad that he wasn’t leader. Said most people who went just despaired at the inaction within UKIP and that he understood why very good activists went to Veritas and that we wanted those people back. DCB says he wasn’t chairman at the time, but says it was down to a lack of activity and that a full manifesto of policies would have helped. Agreed with what the other said, but wants unity and for all this to be put behind us under a new leader. Nigel came back, saying Kilroy would only accept leader of the World and said that Knapman had not been effective of late as he was tired and had enough, but that he and his wife had done a lot for UKIP (100%), but said overall that we should thank Roger Knapman. Richard came back and says that Nigel introduced RKS who wanted to rule the world, but that position was reserved for Nigel (said it was joke). Then went on to say that you vet the people that you bring in, to prevent more Kilroy experiences.. 8. What are your views of the actions of Hamas, Hezbollah and the Israeli defence forces? David Noakes says he was horrified at the brutality out there. Made the point that for every one Israeli killed, 10 Lebanese were. He said he shocked at the brutality of the Israeli government. He said that Bush was a warmonger and had encouraged the Israelis to do it. He suggested that Hezbollah were reacting to Israeli’s bulldozing their towns. (Member of the audience says they shouldn’t throw rockets into Israel). David says that is down to desperation and says the UN should go in. DCB says he was involved in the Northern Ireland peace process and said that that diplomatic process had to take over and that it could not be solved by military means. Says he it isn’t acceptable that Israel should hit Lebanese infrastructure, but that the terrorists who fired missiles into civilian populations were legitimate targets. Made the point that common ground and political solutions had to be found. (At this point my tape ran out, so the rest is from notes) Richard says this is a solution that requires the UN to go in that both side have to take a step back. While Hezbollah started the current problems with the kidnapping of two soldiers, Israel had over reacted and should show more restraint. Nigel disapproved of the Israeli response and said British politicians had been almost silent on the issue. Stated that the EU was speaking on our behalf on the issue, which was a disgrace. Also said people have to recognise that the state of Iraq was now proving to be a disaster in the overall picture. 9. What do you think about British Union and the state that it is in? DCB said he was in favour of the Union, but believes we should fight regional elections. Richard says we should remain a party for the whole UK, but that he differed from some in that UKIP should be fighting against having separate national assemblies. Nigel questioned Scotland’s position in the U.K and said that it was crackpot to want independence from the U.K, but stay subservient to the EU. Believes that fighting elections in Scotland, when the results of late have been poor, is a waste of resource. Says we should go hell for leather in the Welsh Assembly elections though. David Noakes made the point that regionalisation is the way that EU is dividing and conquering the nation and that we should have no part in helping it. 10. How many hours per week will you put in as leader? Richard says he will be full time, with a full team supporting him too. Also re-mentions the confidence check after one year. Nigel says he will remain an MEP to get the media coverage, meaning some of the time he will be in the EU, also suggested that time to play was also important. He said he would spend 6-7 days in the EU parliament per month, some of which would not be pure EU politics but UK matters. He went on to to add that he would put in 100 hours per week. David Noakes said he would give 100%, everything he had just as we all should. DCB says he was already full time, but that his plan would be working with Nigel in the EU, thus we were getting two leaders for the price of one. I didn’t catch some of the wash up, so will not report this here. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

01-08-2006, 12:11 AM	#9 (permalink)
B.A.Ware Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Birmingham Posts: 4,577 Party: UKIP	Well done Matt bet your fingers are sore now. :P __________________ We’re not just about Europe.

31-07-2006, 05:04 PM	#2 (permalink)
Bluemerle Uber Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Dorset. Posts: 3,252	About 100 turned up, mainly Farage supporters, some of whom rudely chatted when Richard was speaking. The questions were rigged in favour of NF.

31-07-2006, 05:20 PM	#4 (permalink)
Colin McNamee Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Somerset Posts: 894	Apart from Exeter have you not noticed that there has been very, very little info posted on this site following previous hustings ?

31-07-2006, 10:13 PM	#7 (permalink)
michael mcgough Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Essex Posts: 944	Thanks for this Matt--much appreciated

31-07-2006, 10:17 PM	#8 (permalink)
kernow Uber Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 5,182	Well done Matt good reporting, sounded much like how Exeter went! I was going choose Richard as leader before the hustings and the hustings confirmed my choice!

01-08-2006, 12:36 AM	#10 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 31,038 Party: Libertarian Party	Yep. I am going to tidy it up though and will see if various places want it for their newsletter. I am already getting bits of feedback, where people think I have missed a bit, or wasn't 100% fair. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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