Mikeuk

Actually I was rather sorry necon (sic) got banned just when she did. You may recall that in one of her last posts she claimed

I had been eagerly waiting for a claim such as that, as I have a verifiable post she made on another forum in 2002 in which she stated that she had never been out of the UK

By the time I read her post she had been banned. :twisted:

ukpatriot

Perhaps she'll return when her ban runs out, or she'll sign up with another username. I was always sure she was telling fibs about her trips to Israel, her posts lacked authenticity and her statement you have mentioned says it all.

Michael Hillier

Hezbollah killed 8 Israeli Soldiers and kidnapped 2 soldiers. This was done without any provocation by Israel of any kind.

Some countries and people say that the Israli responce is excessive and should be haulted. Remember this was started by Hesbollah in Lebanon and they declared war on Israel.

Israel has asked for the return of its 2 kidnapped soldiers.

The Israeli response should be to ask for the return in 48 hours of the two kidnapped soldiers alive and in good health. If not Israel should tell Hezbollah that they will put a small nucelar bomb in the centre of Beirut.
If Hezbollah does not return the 2 Israeli soldiers alive and in good condition they will see what will happen to their country and this should deter any other nations in attacking Israel.

Israel has the right to defend itself and if any country declares war they should know what the concequences will be.

Michael Hillier

UKIP must only comment on what is happening here in the UK. It is not any business of our party to comment on any other issue. We do not comment on our own business here, so why should we bother to discuss the politics of any other country.

This party must protect and look after our own people here in the UK. We all have our views on what is happening worldwide, but if we are going to be a major party we must concentrate on what is happening herein the UK. Just leave the other countries to do what they have to do.

If we as UKIP are a joke in our own country then whey should any body listen to what we have to say about worldwide politics?
.

Mikeuk

The IRA killed thousands of British soldiers. That didnt give us the right to invade Eire, slaughter droves of innocent civilians, and bomb Dublin into the Stone Age.

You are completely off your rocker, pal. Sure somebody hasn't put a 'small nuclear bomb' in your brain? :twisted:

I wasn't aware that UKIP had expressed an official opinion on the matter but since any party has the right to take a view on any aspect of foreign affars Im afraid I don't understand your reasoning.

BASILDON BOY

It is not a war to stop terrorists - its a war to bomb Lebanon back 15. years!

BBC analysis of targets bombed so far:-

Airports

Beirut International
Qaleiat domestic
Rayak military

Ports

Beirut
Tripoli
Jounieh

Other transport

Lighthouse, Beirut
Bridges: 62
Fuel stations: 22
Overpasses: 72
Dams: 3
Roads: 600km

Military

Radar installations: 4
Army barracks: 1

Civilian

Private homes: 5,000

Commercial

Tissue paper factory, Bekaa
Bottle factory, Bekaa
Other businesses: 150

Communications

Hezbollah's al-Manar TV station, Haret Hreik, Beirut
MTC mobile phone antenna, Dahr al-Baidar

Utilities

Jiyeh power plant
Sibline power station
Sewage plant, Dair al-Zahrani

ukpatriot

No, you are wrong. The Israelis were on Lebanese territory when they were arrested. Which makes all the difference.

No. Hizbollah arrested those Israelis and intended to use them to trade for some of their people held in Israeli jails. Such trades have been done before. As it was, there is absolutely no problem in law with those Israelis being captured since they were on Lebanese sovereign territory.

No, they have demanded it and attacked a neighbouring country with the expressed intention of destroying that country's infrastructure and if you read BB's post you will see that their targets attacked so far bear this out.

No. Israel should return some of the 10, 000 Arab prisoners it holds in its jails, many of whom have never been tried before a court, in return for the IDF soldiers. Israel should then pull all its forces out of Gaza and cease attacks forthwith on Lebanon.

Your suggestion regarding a nuke is complete madness and would most likely open up WW3.

OK, so Israel allegedly has the right to defend itself... and presumably you include in this the right to fight to retain its illegal settlements in illegally held territory on the West Bank, and its right to treat Palestinians as scum.

If you think this you are very wrong.

ukpatriot

But that didn't stop you posting a defence of Israeli activities and suggesting they should nuke Beirut, did it? In posting the above you made yourself look like a hypocrite.

As for 'our people', who are you thinking of? Israelis?

Aardvark

Lebanon didn't start the war and the Lebanese are as much victims as the Israelis. The Israeli response for 8 deaths and 2 kidnappings is disproportionate and had we done the same in Ireland the US government (which was a state sponsor of IRA terrorism until 9/11) would have condemned us immediately.

It is wrong to say that Israel didn't do anything. The 18 year occupation of southern Lebanon, the complicity of Sharon in the massacres of hundreds of civilians, the holding for many years of hundreds of Lebanese prisoners without trial (still doing it), the refusal to discuss Shebaa farms and the refusal to settle the state of war that has notionally existed between Israel and Lebanon since the late 1940s, which causes the lack of desire to have proper border arrangements, might seem to some to be provocative.

Hizbollah should, by international agreement, have been disarmed, but the Lebanese government lacks the capacity to do so. Note Israel, with massively superior forces and the support of the world's only super power, has failed to disarm Hizbollah in nearly 2 weeks. How on earth, without massive international support, could Lebanon hope to disarm them?

The idea of dropping small nuclear devices in the heart of Christian and Sunni areas is unlikely to worry Hizbollah. It does, however, typify some Israeli though that sees only 2 types of people - Jews and Gentiles! You might as well argue for a small nuclear device in the centre of London for what it's worth. The world is not defined in such simple terms and to think like that is to put us back centuries. I can identify differences between secular, Reform, Orthodox and ultra-Orthodox (thoroughly insane) Jews; it would help if the Israelis could recognise the difference between Christians and Muslims (the clue is their occupation of largely Christian Bethlehem in 2002 in response to an Islamic suicide bomb!!!).

Lebanon is a sovereign state and has not attacked Israel. All attacks on Lebanese civilians where there is no clear proof of a Hizbollah presence are disproportionate and contrary to international law. To kill Christians or Sunnis in order to persuade some Shi'ites to change their actions (not all Shi'ites support Hizbollah) is a war crime and the Israeli commanders inflicting deaths on these groups are murderers in the same way that Hizbollah killers of Israeli civilians are murderers (Hizbollah has, it might be argued, a certain justification in killing Israeli soldiers since the Israeli state is holding large numbers of their members without trial).

Israel has the same right to self defence as the UK. We did not flatten Dundalk (despite the severest provocations and temptations) just because it was a hot bed of IRA activity and despite the hundreds of deaths on our side. I got my medal in the war on terror in NI and I don't recall the Israeli government encouraging us to strike deep into the heart of Ireland in pursuit of terrorists.

I don't think we had sufficient provocation to attack Iraq, but do think that the Taliban government was clearly the sponsor of international terrorism. The Lebanese government had made massive strides to stabilise Lebanon and the wholesale destruction of Lebanese infrastructure does not bode well for Jewish communities world wide.

If Israel were to drop a nuke on Beirut why would the relatives of the victims, who live in the UK, USA, Australia and other countries, not retaliate against Israeli targets and Jews in the same indiscriminate way? I have already made a conscious decision never to knowingly buy Israeli produce ever again. Millions of others are already making those sort of decisions. There was a small anti-Israel riot in Australia last night. The Israeli tourist industry was struggling during the Intifada, it is dead for the foreseeable future. Israel is already the largest recipient of overseas aid in the entire world and could not survive without the $6billion pa (excluding military aid) that comes from the USA.

It is a sign of the mindset of the Israeli government that they don't care about being a normal country, but are genuinely happy to live in a state of permanent war with any or all of their neighbours. Another generation of Lebanese arabs now hates all Jews for the rest of their lives. The children who have been orphaned and are now only 5 or 6 could devote the next 70 years to killing Jews. This, IMHO, is what the Israeli government wants. If Israel made peace with their neighbours and treated the Arabs under their control like human beings (I lived in Jerusalem and Jericho for 4 months and saw how evil the Israeli defence Force is0 there would be peace.

Remember Israel has controlled the West Bank and Gaza for 38 years. In that time they had the opportunity to win hearts and minds. They could have treated the Arabs with dignity and respect so that when there were free and fair elections the Arabs would have voted for peace; instead Arabs who were not even born in 1967 voted overwhelmingly for a party that would destroy Israel. That sums up the success of Israeli occupation and settlement (all of it illegal). Israel has made more enemies than friends since it occupied Arab territory. Even in Israel they have created an apartheid state where Israeli Arabs are second class citizens - there are housing estates for sale to Jews only. It would be illegal in this country; it is the future of Israel.

Israel is an apartheid state living on international aid surrounded by enemies. The solution cannot be to nuke the neighbours.

Mikeuk

Good to hear that decent, moderate, Tory MPs are joining the growing opposition to Israel's appalling conduct.

Well done Sir Peter! A fantastic quote!