mkpdavies

It's actualy a combination of things that are required. For sure none of us should have wasted a minute in Bromley, when the was no evidence of a local build up there that could have lead to victory. Instead, we should have said no to helping there and done something in our own areas instead.

Lesson learned.

However, to say that your national image and direction doesn't matter at all is naive to the nth degree. Of course it does. The Tories still hang on to seats with sod all local effort. That's because of their image built up over time and now being dismantled by Cameron.

Still this party pays lip service to the internet.

Still this party gives it's local branches nothing to rally around.

Still this party makes it HARDER, not easier to grow at a local level, because of it's "joke" image portrayed at the national level.

It's true that UKIP local branches have to change their way of doing things and that needs to be driven from the top. Hence we need totaly new leadership as the current bunch just keep on blaming the troops.

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BASILDON BOY

I agree with everything with what Mark says.

Only by winning the hearts and minds of Joe Public on local issues will we break through into election success at a local and national level.

Take a walk around your ward - you will spot hundreds of problems that the Council has a duty to fix.

Some of them - get a petition and get local people to sign it - ask questions at full council meetings on local issues (most councils have a public question time) start issuing press releases and write letters to the press.

These does need to be a detailed guide on fighting local elections.

Do we have any examples of UKIP fighting local campaigns on local issues and getting a great vote as a result?

mkpdavies

Yes to the fighting local issues (Mark himself does this).


Results? Not yet.

Stephen Allison is the best known local campaigner we have and he has just one a council seat because of it.

Do you have the time and money to do what he does? Personally I am stuck behind a screen as part of my job (you know, those funny little things you have to do to live). If I won the lottery, I'd be out there like a shot doing more.

It is true though. I won't be wasting a single penny on anything the national level throws out now. Woking is my only focus and the next question I have to ask myself, is does UKIP buy me anything at that level. The answer is no currently, so I think if UKIP doesn't have anything to add on a national level, it may be worth going independent, or joining a party that does have a posive image here.

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Mark Croucher

Sorry Matt, but you are wrong.

People pay lip service to the internet because its reach is largely limited to a certain demographic group which is hardly huge. Because people have internet access does not mean that they use it for politics, far from it: I think it remains the case that the only profitable internet sites are pornographic. In Bromley, there were something like 8,000 unique visitors to the site, but even if half lived in the constituency, that's still less than 10% of the electorate, and half would be an optimistic assesment, I think. www.ukipbromley.com was plastered on every piece of literature and billboard poster after the first week.

In terms of local issues, what can the top do? Go and live in every town for a while? It's simply not feasible. Local campaigning can only be driven by local branches on issues which they feel strongly about. Yes, senior members and MEPs can visit to bolster local campaigns and lend political weight, but they can not devise them unless they are local themselves. Do you know what the big issues are in Dartford, because I don't have a clue about Woking, and you're only 35 miles away or so. I can guarantee that the fine details are different, even if the overall substance of the issues are the same. Here, we focus on excessive development, the tolls, police station closure, closure of youth facilities and youth crime, but even if your local issues are the same, your ideas for dealing with them will depend on the locality.

Yes, UKIP could be better at explaining how to fight these things, but there are so few people who actually know, and so few branches willing to (a) listen and (b) put it into practise afterwards. When was the last time you knocked on doors in your constituency? Delivered a local issue based, non-EU leaflet? Issued a branch press release? Spoke to a local reporter? These aren't things the central party can do on your behalf, whoever the leader may be.

Needless to say, this isn't directed at you personally, but is a general observation. Campaigns like Bromley are essential, because they at least keep UKIP's name in the public mind, and our campaigns in the public eye. Saying there is no point going is to miss the point of campaigning. Whatever your view of the result here, it laid down a marker that UKIP is growing as a party, and is learning, slowly but surely, how to fight an effective campaign. Yes, you could argue that the numerical share of the vote is not great, but I think you underestimate the effect of pushing Labour into 3rd. For a start, it means UKIP has now beaten all of the major parties in a major campaign: the Lib Dems in the Euros, Tories in Hartlepool and Labour in Bromley. Sooner or later, the situation will arise where we can beat them all at the same time, but that will not happen if we choose a deliberately defeatist outlook on what was an effective campaign. Hey, the national media can hardly be considered UKIPs friend, but read the coverage: it is near unanimous that UKIP fought an excellent campaign, and achieved a significant result.

Rgds

Mark

BASILDON BOY

Local issues can be any of the following and more:-

Damaged or faulty street lights, damaged walls, abandoned Vehicles, Dog Poo! Commercial waste, blocked and flooded drains and gutters, graffiti, vandalism, discarded road signs, discarded shopping trolleys, dumped rubbish in rivers, discarded syringes, flytipping, flyposting, potholes, tripping obstacles on pavements, overflowing litter bins, uncleaned or damaged road signs.

A quick look around your neighbourhood and you will probably find some - if not all of these!

Start complaining to the council - most have online complaints forms - take before and after photos of the problem - shows how UKIP is a local champion and community acticvists.

Keep a file of photos complaints and you will have plently of material for newsletters or election leaflets and press releases.

Look for problems - make them an issue !

If the council is slow geting the problem fixed - then complain to the local press!

Earn the respect of the lcoal community - it will transform into votes and electoral success!

BASILDON BOY

I might add the ideal way to talk to lots of local residents is collecting a petition on a local issue - against a mobile phone mast - or calling for more play equipment in a local park - or a zebra crossing outside a school!

Try it - people will remember UKIP are the ones fighting for the local community against the local council!

Anthony Butcher

You cheeky sod I asked you whether there was anything that the NEC could do to assist the press office and you lectured at me for fifteen minutes about local campaigns. You telling me something does not mean that I didn't know it before hand!

In the last council by-election that we fought here we got over 10% of the vote (considerably better than Bromley). That was from a cold start, so not so bad by my reckoning.

However, more important than local elections and campaigns is the national image. As Matt says, political parties have their core vote because of loyalty to the national party, not necessarily the local candidates.

Until UKIP's national image is improved, everything else is hindered. Bromley has proved this.

Mark Croucher

Erm..... was I referring to you?

Rgds

Mark

Intbel

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John Page

Mark is right as far as he goes, about the need for a local dimension, but Matt is right in saying that he doesn't go far enough.

Mark stresses the importance of effort at the local branch levels as opposed to the "top" of the party. This use of the word "top" seems out of place, as by inference he is arguing for the importance of effort at the bottom of the party. I prefer "centre" to top.

As I said, Mark doesn't in my view go far enough. Consider my ward.

My ward is one where you weigh the Tory votes. Here they are immovable. But consider Labour & the Lib Dems. They never do anything visible, but they always get votes. Why? Because people are loyal to the national parties.

Now consider the Communists. No, they never stand here. But suppose they did. A communist could work his butt off here and champoin issue after issue, but people in this ward would never vote for him - because he was a Communist. He would do better in local elections standing as an independent. But if he then stood in a general election his vote would still be derisory.

Remember what Matt said, that locally to him a UKIP affiliation is a disadvantage.

The centre aren't encouraging UKIP members to stand as independents. They're encouraging members to stand as UKIP candidates. Therefore the centre do have a role to play. Their job is to make UKIP a party which people will be inclined to vote for.

This means improving on the frankly abject performance of the centre. For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not here pointing at any individuals. What I am saying is that the centre, collectively, is not delivering.

Mark's model seems to be that the "top" has no part to play in local efforts, it's up to the branches to do the hard work.

In fact - of course - it's a team effort. One job of the centre is to add value to local efforts. They neglect this dimension of their work. For instance, the feedback mechanism from local branches to the centre is unclear, and one can hardly say that input from the branches is actively encouraged, and answered positively and promptly.

This is one of the many shortcomings which a real leader will have to address.