Johnny Hates Jazz

I note the following article on the UKIP website:

Appeal to scrap £10bn English payout to Scots

25-06-2006


Daily Express – 24th June 2006

The £10 billion annual subsidy English taxpayers give to Scotland should be scrapped, the man responsible for it said yesterday (23.6.06).

Lord Barnett, who set up the system in the 1970s, described it as "quite wrong".

Under his subsidy, an extra £2,200 is spent on schools, hospitals and other public services for every person living in Scotland compared with England.

Lord Barnett spoke out amid growing anger south of the border over the cash swallowed up by the Scottish Parliament and discontent over the number of Scottish MPs at Westminster.

The issue has also been thrown into the spotlight with the prospect of Gordon Brown - an MP for a Scottish constituency *becoming Prime Minister.

As Chief Treasury Secretary in James Callaghan's Labour Government, Joel Barnett devised a system for calculating Scotland's public spending.

It was designed to tackle deprivation in some areas of Scotland and problems thrown up by the remote location of many Scottish communities. But yesterday he said the system, known as the Barnett Formula, had led to Scotland getting far too much of English taxpayers' cash.

In an interview with GMTV to be broadcast tomorrow (25.6.06), he said the subsidy was far higher than it should be and should be changed.

And he admitted "very large sums" running into "billions of pounds" should be slashed from the Scottish Parliament’s budget.

"The amount of money going to Scotland on a needs basis is far higher than it should be, so it should be changed."

He added: "It should be based on need not on expenditure per head." Lord Barnett also admitted his system was a short-term stop-gap but stayed in place for three decades because successive governments feared upsetting Scottish voters.

Figures earlier this year showed Government spending in Scotland last year was £44 billion, while only £34 billion was raised in tax. As a result, English taxpayers subsidised Scots to the tune of £2,200 per person.

The issue is becoming a major concern for Mr Brown, who fears his authority could be undermined because of Westminster’s declining influence in Scotland.

And in another blow for the Chancellor, an opinion poll for BBC2’s Daily Politics show revealed that 40 per cent of voters in England thought the next PM should be English. The growing rift between English and Scottish voters is causing concern among MPs, with Tories proposing a cut in the number of Scottish members and stopping them voting on English matters.

Mr Brown recently launched a campaign to promote “Britishness” and has been on a media blitz to show his support for England in the World Cup.

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Has UKIP's position on the Barnett formula changed ?

ED

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English Democrats SAY NO To European Union

ENGLISH NOT british not EUropean
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harryaldridge

Of course this bizarre arrangement needs to be changed.

It was devised a long time ago to solve the problems of then. Unless the government plans on re-distributing cash, in a similar way to the EU regions, then there is no need for the formula to exist at all and no need for the subsidy.

Johnny Hates Jazz

Never heard of UKIP making a song and dance about it before

Is UKIP becoming an English Nationalist Party ?

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English Democrats SAY NO To European Union

ENGLISH NOT british not EUropean
- It's time to decide at the 2009 European Elections

Hartlepool

If you put the £27M a day that is paid to the Scots alongside what we pay to the EU you will soon see how we are running down our Services and everything else.

The EU payment is destroying us and the Barnet payment to the Scots is further compounding the misery we are suffering.

Our own dishonest Politicians are the ones we have to turn if we are to get out of the EU in the near future,of course,our own honest Politicians could greatly improve our move from the EU if they only had the will,they need to say clearly why we should leave and also point the finger firmly and clearly at those who continually,day after day tell our people lies about the good things regarding the EU,we would be on our way out as soon as someone had the nerve and will to make the statement,WE ARE 100%AGAINST THE EU BECAUSE OF THE FOLLOWING REASONS...........

harryaldridge

Just because the party doesn't see the Barnett formula as the most pressing issue facing England, doesn't mean we dont have a view on it. That was my own view and not UKIP policy as i dont know what the party stance is.

With regard to becoming an English Nationalist party, i think that campaign is pointless at this time since what use is an english parliament whilst we are still in the EU!

The English democrats should not try and be political yet. Once we leave the EU, you may find UKIP disappears and leaves room for the ED's. You should join us in fighting the EU now, whilst campaigning for an English parliament as a pressure group. Then split and fight for an English parliament when we leave the EU*.

You are likely to start splitting the vote and end up achieving neither of our aims.


* Oh yes, i don;t think it will be too many years now before we leave the EU.

Johnny Hates Jazz

Sorry I am starting to get confused as to what UKIP stands for.

We all agree that exit from the European Union would be a good idea - definately for England, and possibly for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

In the above posts, the contributors are talking about England - are you confusing Britain and England (like the BBC do) or is UKIP no longer a British Nationalist Party (and is now becoming an English Nationalist Party)

Please clarify if UKIP is a British Nationalist Party or an English Nationalist Party ?

Whilst canvassing in Bromley & Chislehurst, then the 50% of the UKIP literature was taken up with a Cross of St George.

Surely if UKIP is becoming an English Nationalist Party, then you need to change your name ?

I fail to see why you guys always claim that 'we have to deal with the EU first'

This reinforces the view that UKIP is a one issue party, surely if issues were dealt with in paralllel rather then in series, it would create a political force to really challenge the Lib-Lab-Con.

Politics is about winning votes, it doesn't have to be one issue at a time !

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English Democrats SAY NO To European Union

ENGLISH NOT british not EUropean
- It's time to decide at the 2009 European Elections

kernow

[quote="English Democrat"]

I fail to see why you guys always claim that 'we have to deal with the EU first'

quote]
Simple! We can talk about policies until the cows come home, but whilst we are in the EU they're not worth the paper they're written on! Any policy put forward must carry the improviser, when we leave the EU or else we arrive at the ridiculous situation "Call me Dave" is in over saying the Tories will scrap the Human Rights Act when they get in power, but will not leave the EU. We all know that is an impossible promise to keep unless we leave the EU. So do you want UKIP to make impossible promises it can't keep and in doing so leave itself open to ridicule?

Britannist

A YouGov poll the other day confirmed that the people of England want the Barnett Formula changed/got rid of. I posted a thread on the poll in another part of the forum.

David Cameron said in his interview with Marr (on BBC 1 Television yesterday morning) that he would not (if he became Prime Minister) change the Barnett Formula. I do not know if he (David Cameron) was aware or not of the fact that last week - yet again - Lord Barnett (to his credit) called for the Barnett Formula to be ended.

Johnny Hates Jazz

David Donald Cameron (who has now confirmed has a good deal of Scottish Blood running through him) is talking about a bill of British Human Rights

While we are in the EU this is a farce, so why doesn't UKIP point this out to the press ?????????

Where is the press release ?

The fact is the UKIP dispite being a proper political party with 10 highly paid MEP's and an income of over £1 million a year, in addition to the salaries of the MEP's is totally ineffective.

Partly because you focus TOTALLY on the EU, and therefore the press have deemed UKIP to be irrelevant to comment on every other subject.

As I have said before, we in the English Democrats, have closely studied UKIP, and learnt from what you have done well, but also from where you have quite frankly screwed up.

With the money UKIP have coming in, you really should have done more. it will be interesting to see if the public have yet forgiven UKIP for the Kilroy episode on Thursday.

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English Democrats SAY NO To European Union

ENGLISH NOT british not EUropean
- It's time to decide at the 2009 European Elections

Intbel

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