Cancellation of Business Meeting

Millennium3 · 01-07-2006, 03:16 PM

If the picture of the Party painted here is anything like accurate, clearly UKIP is a hopeless case, which can only be rescued by a new leader descending from above on his winged white stallion!

brian lee · 01-07-2006, 09:24 PM

I'm sure we are all grateful for Anthony Butcher 's explanation of the workings of the NEC. The trouble is the current party constitution was dreamed up by the last NEC and they lumbered us with it.

From my own experience of effective meetings, a membership of up to five works well, up to seven is OK but degenerates fast up to 12. At that number the committee becomes too unwieldy to create policy and is in effect a council. We need small good sub-committees that utilises whatever talent is available, not just from the NEC.

Electing the main governing body of the Party by post on the basis of a photo and 250 words of puff is mad.

I have been saying this for years, but it obviously suits the cabal that runs the Party, and sod what the members think.

Millennium3 · 01-07-2006, 10:14 PM

We got to the working of the NEC through discussing this suggestion, which was an attempt to make the Party more inclusive of interested members ideas. It does not seem that it should be such an impossible task.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Millennium3

Quote:

Originally Posted by douglas denny

Quote:

Originally Posted by Millennium3

Quote:

Originally Posted by douglas denny

.....The public know we represent getting out of the EU but don't care a fig about being in the EU! We can have all manner of policies which might or might not appeal, but the underlying difficulty we have is the above.

When, and only when, the British public find their own personal lives being blighted by acts of the EU and they can see it for themselves, only then will UKIP's fortunes dramatically change.

It is a fact of life we need to recognise and continue to work towards overcoming. It is not going to be easy.

DED.

This I think is recognised by the majority of the members of the forum. What also seems to be true is that there is a general disillusionment with politics demonstrated by ever reducing turnouts. If we are not going to simply sit and wait for the effects of the EU to blight the lives of the British public, we need other policies which are of great appeal.

Is this not the sort of problem which could be offered to the forum to see if any kind of concensus can be reached - without obligation by the leadership. At least in this way there would be a sense of all working to a common cause.

Absolutely right. It would also be a very positive move which would counter the more extreme negativity here of leadership bashing.

Any concensus of ideas/policies could then be presented to NEC members by whatever means possible to try to gain support. Good ideas usually gravitate upwards of their own accord once suggested.
Now there are a number of computer literate members of the NEC at least you know they will receive submissions easily through e-mail or discussion on this or other forums.
It would be nice to have positive discussion instead of the tripe presented by GLW on the anti-UKIP 'eurorealist' forum for example.

There is also the mechanism of conference discussion of topics where any really good idea might get an airing. All worth a try anyway.

DED.

This seems worth pursuing. The 'policy & suggestions' section could be used for serious debate - perhaps with some special rules. Do you think the NEC would agree to a permanent item on their agenda to discuss anything which had been developed? I suppose Tony Butcher would be the obvious person to present - if he was agreeable.

Anthony Butcher · 02-07-2006, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hartlepool

It must be real bad though,if someone who is just another NEC Member gets away with telling a fellow Member to shut up.Was there a response from the NEC Chairman on such undiplomatic behavior as this?

No, never to Farage, although he did step in when Nigel's aide overstepped the mark (for which he subsequently apologised).

Anthony Butcher · 02-07-2006, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Millennium3

If the picture of the Party painted here is anything like accurate, clearly UKIP is a hopeless case, which can only be rescued by a new leader descending from above on his winged white stallion!

I wouldn't say that it is hopeless, it just doesn't function properly. The problem is that there is no oversight, so the leadership operates without any proper scrutiny. Anyone questioning the situation is labelled as a trouble maker, which is incredibly unhealthy for both morale and democracy in the party.

But as you say, the only resolution to this will be a leader with a vision of how to restructure everything and a willingness to face proper scrutiny.

Millennium3 · 02-07-2006, 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony Butcher

Quote:

Originally Posted by Millennium3

If the picture of the Party painted here is anything like accurate, clearly UKIP is a hopeless case, which can only be rescued by a new leader descending from above on his winged white stallion!

I wouldn't say that it is hopeless, it just doesn't function properly. The problem is that there is no oversight, so the leadership operates without any proper scrutiny. Anyone questioning the situation is labelled as a trouble maker, which is incredibly unhealthy for both morale and democracy in the party.

But as you say, the only resolution to this will be a leader with a vision of how to restructure everything and a willingness to face proper scrutiny.

Your definition and mine of the qualities required by the new leader differ somewhat, but in either case, unless there is a candidate [with the potential to win] of which I am unaware, the next leader is likely to fall far short of the mark.

Hartlepool · 02-07-2006, 10:19 AM

Anthony,I'm a bit confused when you mention Farages Aide being present at an NEC Meeting.

Does each NEC Member have an Aide and how are these Aides able to enter NEC Meetings?

I have hoped these NEC Meetings would always be private,closed door meetings.

This is madness,if someone can attend NEC Meetings who has not been Elected to the NEC by the UKIP Membership,no wonder we have the likes of GL-W fully clued up about NEC/UKIP stuff.

We may as well set up microphones and start broadcasting our Meetings to all.

Anthony Butcher · 02-07-2006, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hartlepool

Anthony,I'm a bit confused when you mention Farages Aide being present at an NEC Meeting.

Does each NEC Member have an Aide and how are these Aides able to enter NEC Meetings?

It was by email

Veelad · 02-07-2006, 01:10 PM

Quote:

We may as well set up microphones and start broadcasting our Meetings to all.

I thought those nice sane liberal chappies at the BNP did that for you

They seem to know what happening in your party before its members do :shock:

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01-07-2006, 03:16 PM	#121 (permalink)
Millennium3 Moderator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Berkshire Posts: 4,762	If the picture of the Party painted here is anything like accurate, clearly UKIP is a hopeless case, which can only be rescued by a new leader descending from above on his winged white stallion!

01-07-2006, 09:24 PM	#122 (permalink)
brian lee Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: South Essex Posts: 618	I'm sure we are all grateful for Anthony Butcher 's explanation of the workings of the NEC. The trouble is the current party constitution was dreamed up by the last NEC and they lumbered us with it. From my own experience of effective meetings, a membership of up to five works well, up to seven is OK but degenerates fast up to 12. At that number the committee becomes too unwieldy to create policy and is in effect a council. We need small good sub-committees that utilises whatever talent is available, not just from the NEC. Electing the main governing body of the Party by post on the basis of a photo and 250 words of puff is mad. I have been saying this for years, but it obviously suits the cabal that runs the Party, and sod what the members think.

02-07-2006, 10:19 AM	#127 (permalink)
Hartlepool Uber Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Northern England Posts: 7,105 Party: Free England Party	Anthony,I'm a bit confused when you mention Farages Aide being present at an NEC Meeting. Does each NEC Member have an Aide and how are these Aides able to enter NEC Meetings? I have hoped these NEC Meetings would always be private,closed door meetings. This is madness,if someone can attend NEC Meetings who has not been Elected to the NEC by the UKIP Membership,no wonder we have the likes of GL-W fully clued up about NEC/UKIP stuff. We may as well set up microphones and start broadcasting our Meetings to all.