UKIP slams EU racism

Christina · 01-06-2006, 02:33 PM

It's offensive to Sikhs to call a Kirpan a 'dagger' it is actually a sword.

Here's some photos.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/khalsa/page14.htm

So, the guy saying it was racist, gawain, has actually used language that Sikhs find offensive here.

http://www.sikhs.org/art12.htm

A ceremonial sword can be used as a weapon, is what I am saying.

I would have no problem with Sikhs carrying Kirpans if everyone were allowed to carry similar items. We would be arrested for it.

mkpdavies · 01-06-2006, 04:01 PM

http://www.muslimnews.co.uk/news/news.php?article=11168

Quote:

By Aleander Balzan

Brussels, EUObserver: A group of Sikhs invited to the European Parliament to discuss freedom of religion, were not allowed into the parliament building because they were each carrying one of their religious symbols, a dagger.

A planned meeting that had to discuss 'Freedom of Sikhs in Europe to practice their faith,' was cancelled, as the majority of the Sikhs wanting to participate were denied entry into the parliament as they were wearing a Kirpan.

Kirpan, a ceremonial religious dagger, is meant to symbolize a Sikh's duty to fight against oppression.

It was only after some hours and the intervention of various MEPs that 12 out of the 150 Sikh visitors group were granted access to the parliament.

"The Sikhs came from all over Europe to get parliamentarians to understand religious and cultural reality," said British Labour MEP, Neena Gil.

"It's a great shame that parliament responded to draw this bridge on religious tolerance," Ms Gil added.

Britsh UKIP MEP Derek Clark said that he will be demanding an apology for the Sikh community.

"I will be writing in the strongest terms to the European Parliament protesting at what seems quite apparent to be racist behaviour on the part of the European Parliament," he added.

Jaminder Singh, from the British young Sikhs, said that religious symbols are fundamental for Sikh followers.

"I was very disappointed and very upset especially from the European Parliament as it shows ignorance and inconsistency in countries across Europe," he added.

"Every person, individual, must be able to express religious freedom." said Mr Singh.

"The freedom of Sikhs in Europe to visibly practice their faith is a major concern. For the last years the right to wear Sikh turban in France, schools, and when obtaining documentation such as passports, have been challenged by authorities," Mr Singh remarked.

The visitor groups included Sikhs from France, Britain, the Netherlands, Germany and Belgium.

Christina · 01-06-2006, 04:08 PM

So UKIP stand for British laws for everyone in Britain, right? You want out of the EU to achieve this, right?

BUT, you want Sikh men to be able to carry a Kirpan even though a white, black or brown non-Sikh would be arrested and charged, right?

mkpdavies · 01-06-2006, 04:14 PM

I didn't see any statement saying that.

Christina · 01-06-2006, 04:20 PM

The Sikhs weren't allowed in because of the Kirpans, if your MEPs say that is racist, then they obviously think Sikhs should be able to carry them on our streets. Fact is, you would be arrested if you carried one.

Hartlepool · 01-06-2006, 04:25 PM

Fact is Christina,you are still presenting yourself as being very very bnp.

Not good for your new Party image if you wish to get on in the CONS.

Suggest you cool it a bit. :wink:

mkpdavies · 01-06-2006, 04:26 PM

They didn't say that was racist. They said the way the were treated over the matter is.

Personaly I couldn't care less if anyone carries a knife, as long as they don't threaten people with it.

Christina · 01-06-2006, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hartlepool

Fact is Christina,you are still presenting yourself as being very very bnp.

Not good for your new Party image if you wish to get on in the CONS.

Suggest you cool it a bit. :wink:

Not at all, the BNP have a Sikh guy who helps them, so in fact, you are.

I believe in equality for all. That means either:

1. All people should be allowed to carry knives, dagger type implememnts

or

2. No one should be allowed to.

Presently, we have a situation where Jews, Christians, atheists, hindus, agnostics, from whatever ethnic background would be arrested for carrying a Kirpan, but a Sikh would not.

That is NOT equality.

I am surprised that UKIP members are defending this inequality brought about by imposing foreign religious laws upon our people. I can only take it that your opposition to the EU has nothing to do with foreign laws being imposed upon us, and that means you simply don't like Europeans. Unless, of course, they are used as cheap labour.

Do you believe that Sikh men should be allowed into a nightclub or pub with a Kirpan?

Christina · 01-06-2006, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

Personaly I couldn't care less if anyone carries a knife, as long as they don't threaten people with it.

That isn't the point, Matt.

Suppose a guy you knew was arrested for carrying a knife similar to a Kirpan? 5 years minimum jail term is being discussed right now for carrying a knife.

Do you support or oppose exemptions on religious grounds for anybody?

Hartlepool · 01-06-2006, 04:39 PM

The other religions you list should not be allowed to carry knives because it is not part of their religions.

01-06-2006, 04:14 PM	#24 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 31,183 Party: Libertarian Party	I didn't see any statement saying that. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

01-06-2006, 04:26 PM	#27 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 31,183 Party: Libertarian Party	They didn't say that was racist. They said the way the were treated over the matter is. Personaly I couldn't care less if anyone carries a knife, as long as they don't threaten people with it. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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01-06-2006, 02:33 PM	#21 (permalink)
Christina Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Eccleston, St Helens Posts: 1,529	It's offensive to Sikhs to call a Kirpan a 'dagger' it is actually a sword. Here's some photos. http://www.tribuneindia.com/khalsa/page14.htm So, the guy saying it was racist, gawain, has actually used language that Sikhs find offensive here. http://www.sikhs.org/art12.htm A ceremonial sword can be used as a weapon, is what I am saying. I would have no problem with Sikhs carrying Kirpans if everyone were allowed to carry similar items. We would be arrested for it.

01-06-2006, 04:08 PM	#23 (permalink)
Christina Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Eccleston, St Helens Posts: 1,529	So UKIP stand for British laws for everyone in Britain, right? You want out of the EU to achieve this, right? BUT, you want Sikh men to be able to carry a Kirpan even though a white, black or brown non-Sikh would be arrested and charged, right?

01-06-2006, 04:20 PM	#25 (permalink)
Christina Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Eccleston, St Helens Posts: 1,529	The Sikhs weren't allowed in because of the Kirpans, if your MEPs say that is racist, then they obviously think Sikhs should be able to carry them on our streets. Fact is, you would be arrested if you carried one.

01-06-2006, 04:25 PM	#26 (permalink)
Hartlepool Uber Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: North East England Posts: 6,817 Party: Popular Democrats	Fact is Christina,you are still presenting yourself as being very very bnp. Not good for your new Party image if you wish to get on in the CONS. Suggest you cool it a bit. :wink:

01-06-2006, 04:39 PM	#30 (permalink)
Hartlepool Uber Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: North East England Posts: 6,817 Party: Popular Democrats	The other religions you list should not be allowed to carry knives because it is not part of their religions.