Simon Heffer in Todays Telegraph

jp · 31-05-2006, 11:08 AM

Says something nice about UKIP whilst giving the Blu Lab a total hammering:

Quote:

Perhaps Mr Cameron's most harmful assumption is this: that, in the end, the Tory public, and the supposedly Tory press, will have nowhere else to go, so he can muddle along in the middle and end up in Downing Street. If the Conservative Party were any longer Tory, he might have a point - but it isn't. I am alarmed by the number of readers who write to me to say they have voted, or will vote, BNP. The entirely respectable UKIP now stands at four per cent in the polls, and almost all its support is precious votes taken from the Conservatives. Above all, the abstention party goes from strength to strength. Mr Cameron wilfully does nothing to counter these forces, except occasionally to insult them. However unlikely it may now seem, he and his party will live to regret that.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/m...ixopinion.html

Lawrie Boxall · 31-05-2006, 01:19 PM

I suppose that's possible - a really mass defection of Tory voters to UKIP, (not the current UKIP of course but a future electable party). But politics by its very nature deals with the here and now, and in the short/medium term (between now and 2009), Cameron has no choice but to move the party to the centre.

Chip · 31-05-2006, 02:41 PM

If Cameron said he would reduce taxation and leave the EU the absentee Tory voters would return. As far as the Tory EU lovers are concerned where would they go? Leibor? Lib / Labs ,oops sorry Lib Dems?

jp · 31-05-2006, 04:41 PM

As was stated in the article, the Tories are not doing that well given the state of the government.

Whether a move to the centre is required is debatable. It seems to me that any party which will offer solutions to the problems which are now becoming all too obvious would do well, and more feelgood "policy-lite" tosh a la Cameron is the last thing we need.

mark starr · 31-05-2006, 04:56 PM

I also liked Heffer's comment that Cameron's conspicuous failure to deliver on his promise to exit the EPP group in the EU Parliament is beginning to grate on the Eurosceptics in the Party.

Hartlepool · 31-05-2006, 05:05 PM

He will never do it,pull out of the EPP,unless he is aiming for a huge audience to do a "I TOLD YOU SO" routine. 8)

Bluemerle · 31-05-2006, 05:05 PM

It is much more interesting reading Simon Heffer on line, than in the paper version, as there are lots of comments which are very prescient.

This was one comment.

Quote:

"David Cameron, must now announce some definate policies,or he can forget being Prime Minister. What about reopening the many Police Stations that have been shut down, Crime was less when we had a bobby on the streets, what about the village Post Offices, that were in effect, also community centres. Go through New Labour blunders, and promise to repeal them, when in power. For for the Public's sake, make a definate statement on SOMETHING, OR FORGET ABOUT FORMING A GOVERMENT
Posted by Yorkie Doncaster on May 31, 2006 6:53 AM"

Oliver Letwin told me at a meeting in Dorchester that it was official Tory policy to have a police house in every village. Wonder what happened to that little nugget.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/m...ixopinion.html

Hartlepool · 31-05-2006, 05:13 PM

I think he's still around BM. :wink:

pentameter · 31-05-2006, 07:19 PM

The debates this kind of article throws up are fascinating.

Nu Labour is a PR stunt masquerading as a government, and their answer to everything is a new PR stunt. Got to see the back of them, the country's falling apart. All agreed.

The way to do this is to have an acceptable, telegenic leader who says nothing much for now for strategic reasons, avoids divisive issues such as the EU and has the broadest appeal. Policies will be developed when the working groups report, it's a disadvantage to have specific policies now. He'll say plenty when the time is ripe. We have to shed the 'nasty party' image first, which we are doing.

The way to get out of this mess is to have clear Conservative policies.

What, the kind of policies that lost us three elections? Back to the 50s? We need to become electable before we can do anything, and that means appealing to the centre and shedding the dinosaurs, if need be.

So you're suggesting that we try and gain power for the sake of gaining power, taking no stance on anything and perform a Nu Labour fraud? Much apart from policies, we don't have any Conservative values. What would happen if we got elected? Much the same as now. Who's going to vote for Blair MkII anyway?

We're not sizing up to fight Blair, but Brown. If you don't like it, you can clear off, you won't be missed.

And so it goes on.

Bluemerle · 31-05-2006, 07:36 PM

Yes pentameter, it is quite an eye opener seeing the "new mod Tories" defending Dave, crossing their fingers, touching wood etc.

I have ongoing spats with a friend who is a Tory Chairman. I know he agrees with everything we stand for, and indeed he voted for us in the EU election, but his argument is we have to get rid of Blair and voting UKIP won't do that, so he is closing his eyes and mind to the fact that the Tories are the same. I sent him an e-mail yesterday "Cameron's comments on the EU"

Quote:

Here is an example of what Cameron's office is sending out to people. There is not much that is eurosceptic or indeed practical about it.

Quote: We have never pretended that all is well with the European Union. Indeed
we have long campaigned for its reform and modernisation. It does too
much and too much of what it does do, it does badly. Even the new EU
trade commissioner, Peter Mandelson, has said that if European
regulation matched best practice, Europe's productivity would grow by 2
to 6 per cent (Financial Times, 11 November 2004). It is partly for
these reasons that David Cameron has said that EU reform should have
three components. For Britain, the first priority must be the return of
powers over employment and social regulation. Second, the EU must
abandon the hubristic constitutional project once and for all. Third, we
must give the EU a clear remit to enforce trade and open markets.

However, it would be wrong for Britain to leave the EU. The EU does much
that is worthwhile. It allows people and goods to move freely across
Europe. Just as importantly it has brought stability and has helped to
entrench democracy in newly free countries.

That is why we believe it is right for Britain to remain a positive
member of the European Union, leading its reform. It is Britain's and
Europe's loss that this Government, which has had such opportunities to
lead that reform, has missed them - not least during our current
Presidency. For instance, the Prime Minister said last June that he
wanted to `get rid' of the CAP, but not only during the course of our
Presidency did the Government fail to put forward any detailed proposals
to reform the CAP, but CAP spending will be higher next year, the year
after that, and in every year up to 2013.

David Cameron hopes that you will continue to support the Conservative
Party which has the vision and determination to bring about change in
the EU so that people like yourself find the EU a help not a hindrance
in their lives.

and he e-mailed back....

Quote:

Thats not good enough he will have to do better and he may not wish to pullout but he will have to be far more robust in his handling of the EU to get EU sceptics back in the Tory fold.

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31-05-2006, 01:19 PM	#2 (permalink)
Lawrie Boxall Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Sandhurst Posts: 1,015	I suppose that's possible - a really mass defection of Tory voters to UKIP, (not the current UKIP of course but a future electable party). But politics by its very nature deals with the here and now, and in the short/medium term (between now and 2009), Cameron has no choice but to move the party to the centre.

31-05-2006, 02:41 PM	#3 (permalink)
Chip Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: North West UK Posts: 598	If Cameron said he would reduce taxation and leave the EU the absentee Tory voters would return. As far as the Tory EU lovers are concerned where would they go? Leibor? Lib / Labs ,oops sorry Lib Dems?

31-05-2006, 04:41 PM	#4 (permalink)
jp Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,001	As was stated in the article, the Tories are not doing that well given the state of the government. Whether a move to the centre is required is debatable. It seems to me that any party which will offer solutions to the problems which are now becoming all too obvious would do well, and more feelgood "policy-lite" tosh a la Cameron is the last thing we need.

31-05-2006, 04:56 PM	#5 (permalink)
mark starr Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 642	I also liked Heffer's comment that Cameron's conspicuous failure to deliver on his promise to exit the EPP group in the EU Parliament is beginning to grate on the Eurosceptics in the Party.

31-05-2006, 05:05 PM	#6 (permalink)
Hartlepool Uber Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: North East England Posts: 6,817 Party: Popular Democrats	He will never do it,pull out of the EPP,unless he is aiming for a huge audience to do a "I TOLD YOU SO" routine. 8)

31-05-2006, 05:13 PM	#8 (permalink)
Hartlepool Uber Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: North East England Posts: 6,817 Party: Popular Democrats	I think he's still around BM. :wink:

31-05-2006, 07:19 PM	#9 (permalink)
pentameter Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 310	The debates this kind of article throws up are fascinating. Nu Labour is a PR stunt masquerading as a government, and their answer to everything is a new PR stunt. Got to see the back of them, the country's falling apart. All agreed. The way to do this is to have an acceptable, telegenic leader who says nothing much for now for strategic reasons, avoids divisive issues such as the EU and has the broadest appeal. Policies will be developed when the working groups report, it's a disadvantage to have specific policies now. He'll say plenty when the time is ripe. We have to shed the 'nasty party' image first, which we are doing. The way to get out of this mess is to have clear Conservative policies. What, the kind of policies that lost us three elections? Back to the 50s? We need to become electable before we can do anything, and that means appealing to the centre and shedding the dinosaurs, if need be. So you're suggesting that we try and gain power for the sake of gaining power, taking no stance on anything and perform a Nu Labour fraud? Much apart from policies, we don't have any Conservative values. What would happen if we got elected? Much the same as now. Who's going to vote for Blair MkII anyway? We're not sizing up to fight Blair, but Brown. If you don't like it, you can clear off, you won't be missed. And so it goes on.