Simon Heffer in Todays Telegraph

jp · 31-05-2006, 08:24 PM

This was a comment on the Conservativehome blog which I feel summarises the reality which Cameron et al wilfully ignore:

Quote:

In response to those Conservatives who think Britain should argue for reform of the EU in a liberalising and decentralising direction in coalition with others, I would say the following:-

1. It is to misunderstand the original and on-going mission of the project irreversibly to remove democracy from Europe's nation states and to place decision-making in the hands of a non-elected transnational elite. Many of the elite in the Commission and in EU national governments still hold fundamentally to this project and do not wish it to be derailed in the ways proposed, as the history of the development of the EEC/EC/EU makes clear.

2. The 'reform' that many sceptics in Britain would like to see would only be possible by major treaty revision. This would require unanimity. France, Belgium, Luxembourg, Italy and Spain amongst others would be fundamentally opposed to this since they would lose most in terms on money and power and would therefore veto it.

'Reform' is not possible by any other legal means and so is not really possible at all.

3. Those who argue that a British government should adopt a more vigorous and hostile negotiating position in order to get its way must recognise that to do so would lead at home and abroad to charges that Britain is being racist, obstructive, bullying, marginalised and left "in the slow lane". When Maggie tried to put her foot down in 1988-89 and when Major was trying to negotiate the opt-outs at Maastricht, this is what happened. It is unlikely that a British government would have the guts to act as the French have in the past to get their own way.

4. It is not satisfactory from a democratic or economic perspective to keep being dragged further down this path. Politicians in Britain of all sides must face up to where it is heading and should take the decision to leave now.

I would suggest a relationship with the EU described by the term "Free Trade and Friendship".

But not membership.

John Page · 01-06-2006, 12:31 AM

Posters here cackling over the problems of the Conservatives. But Heffer couldn't find anything more threatening to say about UKIP because there is nothing to say.

It's debatable whether UKIP or the Tories have greater problems.

Clippo · 01-06-2006, 09:14 PM

I, too, read the original article. It seemed to me that the main thrust was that although the latest poll shows the tories at 6% more than labour, and considering the hopeless situation the government is in, the true lead should be more like 16%.

Eric Heffer also highlighted the increasing percent of no-voters, (I can't remember the actual figure in the poll but it was lots). The thought did occur to me that UKIP should be wallowing in potential voters after all the gaffs of all 3 'main' parties over the last few months.

John Page wrote in the previous post

Quote:

It's debatable whether UKIP or the Tories have greater problems.

I couldn't agree more with you John

andypandy · 01-06-2006, 10:02 PM

Of all wasted votes over the last 50 years, a vote for the false patriotism of the Conservatives has to be THE most pointless and utterly objectionable exhibition of national pride there can be. Whenever Britain needed a government to return with a sense of national purpose and direction, we ended up with a Tory Prime Minister,

I despise the Conservatives for pampering to patriotic values whilst delivering nothing but a decade on decade decline in independence and national sovereignty.

Adrian Davies · 02-06-2006, 12:21 AM

The trouble with being totally respectable is that it can mean totally bland.

I'm no fan of the BNP leadership, as is well known, but the unwillingness of so many in UKIP (in the membership, as well as the leadership) to break with the PC consensus on any other issue but the EU has made the party a one trick pony, hence the drift to the BNP.

andypandy · 08-06-2006, 01:09 AM

People do have a habit for voting for the minor party most hated by the media, or that which achieve a degree of infamy as a result of over-exposure by a yawning tabloid press looking for a good front-page circulation booster.

It is a trick that UKIP need to exploit.

02-06-2006, 12:21 AM	#15 (permalink)
Adrian Davies Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: London Posts: 183	To-day's Telegraph The trouble with being totally respectable is that it can mean totally bland. I'm no fan of the BNP leadership, as is well known, but the unwillingness of so many in UKIP (in the membership, as well as the leadership) to break with the PC consensus on any other issue but the EU has made the party a one trick pony, hence the drift to the BNP.

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01-06-2006, 12:31 AM	#12 (permalink)
John Page Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Welwyn Hatfield (Herts.) Posts: 1,878	Posters here cackling over the problems of the Conservatives. But Heffer couldn't find anything more threatening to say about UKIP because there is nothing to say. It's debatable whether UKIP or the Tories have greater problems.

01-06-2006, 10:02 PM	#14 (permalink)
andypandy Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 880	Of all wasted votes over the last 50 years, a vote for the false patriotism of the Conservatives has to be THE most pointless and utterly objectionable exhibition of national pride there can be. Whenever Britain needed a government to return with a sense of national purpose and direction, we ended up with a Tory Prime Minister, I despise the Conservatives for pampering to patriotic values whilst delivering nothing but a decade on decade decline in independence and national sovereignty.

08-06-2006, 01:09 AM	#16 (permalink)
andypandy Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 880	People do have a habit for voting for the minor party most hated by the media, or that which achieve a degree of infamy as a result of over-exposure by a yawning tabloid press looking for a good front-page circulation booster. It is a trick that UKIP need to exploit.