Jerusalem

I stand corrected on Wales; I still suspect Scotland will go its own way with "independence in Europe" (ho ho) and that Wales will remain as part of an English state.
Unless most of those UKIP voters are English settlers escpaing the urban hell of London and Brum...

Andrew Constantine

It would be helpful if UKIP provided an analysis of its members' location. But as a rough guide the population of Scotland and Wales combined must be just over 10% of the total UK population, and I suspect that the % of UKIP members from outside England might be even lower.

Whatever the feelings of the UKIP members and anti-EU activists from Scotland and Wales, they have their own assemblies (indeed their own nations) in which to gain influence.

For England, the reference to UK in UKIP misses the point that many English people now identify with English nationhood, rather than with the UK.

I see the attraction of an English first policy to UKIP (it will have to renamed) as potentially very powerful. After all what is the point of UKIP campaigning for the UK to leave the EU, if Scottish MPs continue to place a Labour government over a majority of anti Labour English voters?

With the exception of its policy to leave the EU, I see UKIP's best chance of gaining electoral sucess and influencing the country as deriving from putting England first. I assume that most UKIP members would agree. Time for a UKIP referendum on the issue?

22ANDUK

I feel so lonely as an Englishman who loves Britain.

andypandy

There is no denying that UKIP Wales did well in Euro 04, but how many of those votes came from ex-pat English people? That result in itself does not confirm anything in Wales and shouldn't be used to assume what UKIP can expect to get in Westminster seats, as UKIP have found many times in the past, and a look at the last gen election result in Blaenau Gwent shows that the independent vote took 58%, Labour around 32%, and all the rest losing their deposits, with the tories coming last with just over 2%. Wales UKIP candidates where they stood, only mildy increased their support and in no way reflected UKIP's votes from the previous Euro election the year before.

Quite honestly, as a relatively newcomer to the world of UKIP - I only got a leaflet during the local council elections, and searched the web afterwards - UKIP must be realistic about which seats it should fight and what it expects to get. I do not believe that with the recent poor showing in the local elections, that UKIP should fight this seat, and supporting the independent candidate is both wise and practical. Obviously, if UKIP locally in that area decide to do so, then UKIP should offer them as much support as possible.

Another thing to think about is that with the Tories getting a very poor showing previously there, it might actually be possible to beat the tories, plaid and the greens (assuming that any of them stand, IF enough effort was put into campaigning. That alone would make standing worthwhile!

ideasmith

Sorry to rake this old subject up again but it's being discussed a lot on the English Democrats forum.

Having an English alternative on the policy would be a great benefit particularly if most UKIP supporters consider themselves English, and Britain's Celtic countries feel alienated to the English anyway (just consider the recent world cup!)

A new yet affiliated party would be in order before it's voters switch to the EDP as this will only split the non-EU support within his country. The EIP is already a registered party so we have other choice of names;

-English UKIP
-Independence Party of England

A 'sister' party such as this will merge the votes instead of split them, for the longterm of both the British and the English.

Tom Wilde

No need to feel lonely. These English nationalist types only got about 200 votes in the Bromley byelection, and that was probably typical of their support across England as a whole.

andypandy

Tom, that is rather unkind of you don't you think? UKIP has only recently achieved virtually the same vote (but I believe a lower percentage) in a Scottish by-election. UKIP support across the whole of England has taken something like 14 years to get where you are now. Also, as you know, UKIP spent something like 25-30 times or more on the recent by-election campaign in the same seat that the EDP stood in.

Yes, 200 votes is pitiful for the EDP, but then UKIP ALSO knows about PITIFUL votes at by-elections, after all, you have had enough of them!

andypandy

So there!

DavidOfKent

If Britain was broken up, the only winner would be the EU.

Scotland and Wales would remain members, we might leave, but then be forced to rejoin due to having borders with the EU or never leave in the first place. We would no longer be an island, and the borders would mean delays and hassle for those that are mixed, or travel between etc. Which would boost support for the EU Schengen Agreement and other EU measures. We'd be totally surrounded by the EU, bordering it. That's not a good situation for Euroscepticism.

As an island, we are better as one United Kingdom. Why do you think they so enthusiastically support regional identities? It's divide and rule. I am not playing a part in it - I am British first, English second, never European.

That is not to say UKIP cannot ride the Englishness bandwagon, we can promote English votes on English laws [home rule from Westminster], we can promote English and British culture, values etc. We must also campaign to abolish Follyrood and the Cardiff Assembly, maybe with more powers for local councils instead.

Britannist

...and you can promote an English Parliament within the UK - just like Scotland has. Unless you just happen to think we English have second class status in the UK (which I'm quite sure you don't)?

English voting on English laws would be swept away by an incoming Labour Government. Labour is anti-English. We need a full Constitutional Convention and a proper English Parliament backed up by a referendum to protect English 'sovereignty' over its domestic internal affairs from the threat of Anglophobe and europhile Labour (and its pro-EU Liberal Dim country cousins).

By the way, David - you say above that we (the UK) are an island. In fact, we are, of course, two main islands (we must not forget Northern Ireland which includes alot of anti-EU people).