Roger Knapman hires Polish workers

Christina · 07-05-2006, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pentameter

UKIP gained a seat - accentuate the positive, eliminate the negative.

Yes that is true, but you see UKIP have always claimed to be truthful while other politicians are deceitful liars. Massaging of figures is something that UKIP have a reputation of being against. Here they do it themselves.

marsipan · 07-05-2006, 08:58 PM

The reason I decided to leave UKIP was because of Knapman not accepting the anti-EU movement was at an unexpected cross-roads due to unforeseeable circumstances

ie Kilroy losing his job in the manner he did; being contacted by UKIP; unprecedented surge of interest by the man in the street; voting for UKIP em mass at the EU elections; having a personality who could actually go on TV/radio and hold his own (and whom TV/Radio wanted to interview); a pending General Election; TIME RUNNING OUT

What did Knapman do to a popular challenger (as in popular outside of the tiny ranks of the party)? He didn't run for the hills and hide - he reached for the rule book and hid behind that.

If Knapman had won I would have remained in the party, abeit with much less hope for the future success of the party. It was clear from that time on, UKIP had a self-preservation core who when push came to shove put their own party interests before country. They were not able or prepared to 'think outside the box'.

What would have happened if Kilroy was the leader going into the General Election is something armchair politicians will opinionate about for years to come. All theory of course.

The facts however, speak for themselves. Since that time UKIP has not progressed one bit - and it can only be because of the 'leadership' that many were so desperate to protect just 18 months ago. The culmination of it seems to be a collosal undermining of the party's credibility by a leader seen by many as the one to lead UKIP to the promised land (via Eastern Europe apparently)

Members of UKIP didn't get what they deserved. Reading the postings on here, they deserved a hell of a lot better.

pentameter · 07-05-2006, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christina

Quote:

Originally Posted by pentameter

UKIP gained a seat - accentuate the positive, eliminate the negative.

Yes that is true, but you see UKIP have always claimed to be truthful while other politicians are deceitful liars. Massaging of figures is something that UKIP have a reputation of being against. Here they do it themselves.

I'm not aware that UKIP made any statement describing the results apart from the announcement of the win in Hartlepool.

I don't see that there has been any 'massaging of figures' as you put it, much less lies.

Quote:

UKIP gained a seat - accentuate the positive, eliminate the negative.

That was just my joke. I assumed you'd have the gumption to see that.

girlfriday · 07-05-2006, 10:31 PM

All I can add to this debate on the Roger - the Polish worker - Dodger, is to reiterate those immortal words of Blackadder when faced with an embarrasing situation:

"Oh, Bo**ocks"!

eublues · 07-05-2006, 10:35 PM

This business does revive nagging thoughts of who amongst the MEPs is really giving 100% of their efforts to getting us out of the EU (as loyal foot-slogging UKIP members would reasonably expect), and who is playing along very nicely with things as they are as MEPs, together with parallel money making activities the real priority.

mkpdavies · 07-05-2006, 10:56 PM

Knapman now has to go ASAP. I just can't believe this isn't a totally intentional effort to finish UKIP off, from a guy who has clearly got the Conservatives best interest at heart.

Sack him NEC, or that's all folks from me. Hypocrisy like this is expected from Labour et al, I'll be damned if I put up with it with UKIP.

Christina · 07-05-2006, 11:23 PM

I bet the story appears on 'Have I got News for you' this week. Any offers that it won't?

Christina · 08-05-2006, 12:39 AM

Well it's in today's Independent. I wonder if the others will report it too?

Anthony Butcher · 08-05-2006, 12:44 AM

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/pol...icle362721.ece

Quote:

As leader of the anti-immigration UK Independence Party, Roger Knapman has railed against eastward expansion of the European Union and opposed the use of imported labour.

However, political doctrine appears to have given way to the need for thrifty home improvement; Mr Knapman has hired cheap Polish builders to do up his country mansion, it was revealed yesterday.

Mr Knapman, an MEP and the UKIP's leader since 2002, recruited the workers through his son, whose company specialises in bringing foreign labour to Britain.

The men have been at Mr Knapman's grade-II listed home in the village of Coryton, west Devon, for 11 months. They sleep dormitory-style in the attic.

The company run by Mr Knapman's son claims that the imported labour costs up to 50 per cent less than British workers would. Mr Knapman, speaking to an undercover reporter from The Sunday Times, praised the men as "they work so much harder".

Such enthusiasm for foreign workers may surprise some UKIP supporters. The party was the only British group in the European parliament to vote against allowing east European states into the EU. UKIP has warned that enlarging the EU would lead to a "flood of migrants" that would be bad for Britain. Its 2005 manifesto said "the numbers of those permitted to enter legally has been rising sharply.... The Labour Government's untenable excuse is thatwe need large numbers of immigrant workers."

Mr Knapman, a former Conservative MP, is also an outspoken supporter of buying British and is proud of owning two Rover cars.

Of the Poles, he said to the undercover reporter: "They have a very good work ethic and work so much harder than anyone over here. You know that they are not going to go off and do another job as they are there specifically for you. Many of the workers here just aren't skilled enough to do the work involved in renovating an old property. These men work 10 hours a day, six days a week. It's a 60-hour week but they want to do it."

He said he could help arrange teams of eastern Europeans to do renovations and building through a company run by his son, William, who had supplied the men working on his Devon property.

"He will bring over some Polish workers according to what you need and they won't let you down. There are two or three different teams and whom you get depends on what job you need doing." William Knapman runs Billdar, a Polish-registered company that hires eastern Europeans to work in Britain. The workers, whom he describes as being "like an army of ants", are paid £50 per day - half the cost of a British builder. He told the undercover reporter that he used mostly Polish workers and quoted £4,000 for two men working for six weeks, including the company's fee.

Mr Knapman Snr could not be contacted yesterday, but he told The Sunday Times there was "no contradiction" between what he was doing and the objectives of the party.

In his own words

* 'There is a limit to the number of people we can take in on a small island: it's just a numbers game'

* Launching UKIP's general election manifesto, Mr Knapman said that the party's case was simple: 'We want our country back'

* On the signing of the 2004 EU constitution in Rome: 'Successive Labour and Conservative governments have signed away British rights to the EU for many years now, but none has gone so far as this: signing away the right of the British people to self-government'

Tom Wilde · 08-05-2006, 09:01 AM

So now we are "the anti-immigration party" and we look like hypocrites as well. What a wonderful piece of work. :evil:

I have little sympathy. It was Roger Knapman himself who at the end of 2002 introduced what he called UKIP's new focus on immigration. I thought then that it was plain stupid for a party whose opponents had repeatedly attempted to lump it with the BNP in the public's mind to even have a focus on immigration at all. Although the policy which eventually emerged (regain control of immigration policy from the EU; have 'zero net' immigration with no discrimination by country of origin) was actually perfectly sensible and moderate, the accompanying rhetoric was always going to get us into trouble somewhere down the line. Well, it just has, and how appropriate that the trouble should be Knapman himself. We've gone full circle. Once Knapman has gone (and after all, his term expires this year) the new leader should take a vow of silence on the whole topic of immigration. We have a moderate and decent policy on the subject which people can look up if they wish. Let's now shut up about it and talk about other policy areas instead.

07-05-2006, 10:31 PM	#44 (permalink)
girlfriday Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: england Posts: 238	Roger the Dodger All I can add to this debate on the Roger - the Polish worker - Dodger, is to reiterate those immortal words of Blackadder when faced with an embarrasing situation: "Oh, Bo**ocks"!

07-05-2006, 10:56 PM	#46 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 32,078 Party: Libertarian Party	Knapman now has to go ASAP. I just can't believe this isn't a totally intentional effort to finish UKIP off, from a guy who has clearly got the Conservatives best interest at heart. Sack him NEC, or that's all folks from me. Hypocrisy like this is expected from Labour et al, I'll be damned if I put up with it with UKIP. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Lib Dems

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07-05-2006, 08:58 PM	#42 (permalink)
marsipan Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 70	The reason I decided to leave UKIP was because of Knapman not accepting the anti-EU movement was at an unexpected cross-roads due to unforeseeable circumstances ie Kilroy losing his job in the manner he did; being contacted by UKIP; unprecedented surge of interest by the man in the street; voting for UKIP em mass at the EU elections; having a personality who could actually go on TV/radio and hold his own (and whom TV/Radio wanted to interview); a pending General Election; TIME RUNNING OUT What did Knapman do to a popular challenger (as in popular outside of the tiny ranks of the party)? He didn't run for the hills and hide - he reached for the rule book and hid behind that. If Knapman had won I would have remained in the party, abeit with much less hope for the future success of the party. It was clear from that time on, UKIP had a self-preservation core who when push came to shove put their own party interests before country. They were not able or prepared to 'think outside the box'. What would have happened if Kilroy was the leader going into the General Election is something armchair politicians will opinionate about for years to come. All theory of course. The facts however, speak for themselves. Since that time UKIP has not progressed one bit - and it can only be because of the 'leadership' that many were so desperate to protect just 18 months ago. The culmination of it seems to be a collosal undermining of the party's credibility by a leader seen by many as the one to lead UKIP to the promised land (via Eastern Europe apparently) Members of UKIP didn't get what they deserved. Reading the postings on here, they deserved a hell of a lot better.

07-05-2006, 10:35 PM	#45 (permalink)
eublues Uber Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,194	This business does revive nagging thoughts of who amongst the MEPs is really giving 100% of their efforts to getting us out of the EU (as loyal foot-slogging UKIP members would reasonably expect), and who is playing along very nicely with things as they are as MEPs, together with parallel money making activities the real priority.

07-05-2006, 11:23 PM	#47 (permalink)
Christina Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Eccleston, St Helens Posts: 1,529	I bet the story appears on 'Have I got News for you' this week. Any offers that it won't?

08-05-2006, 12:39 AM	#48 (permalink)
Christina Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Eccleston, St Helens Posts: 1,529	Well it's in today's Independent. I wonder if the others will report it too?

08-05-2006, 09:01 AM	#50 (permalink)
Tom Wilde Moderator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: London. Posts: 2,924	So now we are "the anti-immigration party" and we look like hypocrites as well. What a wonderful piece of work. :evil: I have little sympathy. It was Roger Knapman himself who at the end of 2002 introduced what he called UKIP's new focus on immigration. I thought then that it was plain stupid for a party whose opponents had repeatedly attempted to lump it with the BNP in the public's mind to even have a focus on immigration at all. Although the policy which eventually emerged (regain control of immigration policy from the EU; have 'zero net' immigration with no discrimination by country of origin) was actually perfectly sensible and moderate, the accompanying rhetoric was always going to get us into trouble somewhere down the line. Well, it just has, and how appropriate that the trouble should be Knapman himself. We've gone full circle. Once Knapman has gone (and after all, his term expires this year) the new leader should take a vow of silence on the whole topic of immigration. We have a moderate and decent policy on the subject which people can look up if they wish. Let's now shut up about it and talk about other policy areas instead.