B.A.Ware

Douglas is absolutely right about this (me and Douglas agreeing :shock
When I first heard about this I thought great we’ve got some MPs on our side but as Douglas says if they truly believe they will jump off their gravy train and join Ukip, but they never will as they make a good living out of what they do. But I suspect once they have retired and had their fill they will join.

ryansoton

Whats the chance on these guys defecting. They have after all commited themselves under tory boy to a life on the back benches.
wonder if we have tried discussing it with them

Bluemerle

ryanston wrote:-

Zilch I should think. They won't leave the Conservative Party as such, but I think they may have the whip withdrawn as some did in the Major Government. They will then be free to pursue their own agenda, namely to get us out.

The Conservative Party should have split in 1992, we may not be in such a mess today if they had. It is the Clarkes and Heseltines who have done so much damage to our country, and shame on Major and others for listening to them. :twisted:

Britannist

Absolutely spot on Bluemerle. Major was a closet europhile who was only chosen as Conservative leader because he wasn't Heseltine. Major then won the 1992 General Election only because he wasn't Kinnock. The 1992 Election was just a gigantic UK-wide referendum on Kinnock. The public could only vote No to Kinnock by picking the bogus eurosceptic Major.

The way the Tory 'euro-rebels' (the half a dozen anti-Maastricht MP's plus Rupert Allason MP) were treated was absolutely disgraceful. With the way the wimp Major, Heseltine (the EU-fanatic Deputy Prime Minister) and Clarke (extreme europhile Chancellor) were behaving in the period 1992-1997 anyone would have thought the europhiles were in the majority in the Conservative Party! The reality was that the views of the overwhelmingly eurosceptic and anti-EU Conservative rank-and-file have been skirted around, suppressed, ignored, distorted and people who hold such views in the Conservative Party have even been harrassed and bullied (as Theresa Gorman, the former Conservative MP would testify).

The problems over europe/EU are going to continue in the Conservative Party until it EXPELS the europhile imposters and makes clear to all new applicants for membership (of the Conservative Party) that the party is a pro-sovereignty party which seeks the return of all sovereign powers lost to the EU in Brussels and the repeal of the EU Communities Act 1972.

This, in itself, would not bring back into the Tory (Conservative) fold all the anti-EU patriots who have been forced out or bullied out of the Conservative Party (by the europhile imposters) but it would be a start.

I wonder when 'Dave' (Cameron) will realise that he's not going to get that overall majority in the Commons until he relents over his foolish verbal attack (a month ago today) on UKIP and accepts that he won't win the hyper-marginals he needs to oust Labour on his own without the vital votes of anti-EU people in those constituencies.

UkipScot

Sorry but this is complete nonsense.

If these people are so onside then why are they still in the Tory Party?

If they really are serious about wanting to come out of the EU they should join us.

All this talk about being nice to those of our opponents who advocate withdrawal is the sort of compromising nonsense that has held this party back and has contributed to its infiltration by the Tories.

It perpetuates the idea that UKIP is simply the bit of the Tory Party that is serious about getting out, which is why we are not making the progress we should. That`s obvious from the fact we`ve only got 1 councillor in today`s English Local Council Elections, whereas the BNP (God help us) have got 13.

Britannist

The reason why another party did better in the local elections yesterday is because UKIP abandoned the EU influx/border control/asylum/Labour's open border and easy immigration as issues to campaign on. Those very issues which helped deliver UKIP its best ever results in the EU Election of 10.6.2004.

As for you claim that what I wrote is "complete nonsense" - is that really the most constructive language to use in communication?

You ask "If these people are so onside then why are they still in the Tory Party?" Well, it would be nice if all the anti-EU people were in one party. Of course it would. But I'm afraid that - at the moment - it might not be any more likely or possible to achieve than getting all the europhiles into one party. As we know, the europhiles are sadly in Labour/Cons. and, of course, LD. They're not all going to leave those parties to join a small pro-EU party, are they? I'm not expecting anti-EU people like Ian Davidson (the Glasgow MP) or Bill Cash (the Conservative MP for Stone in Staffordshire) to quit their parties to join UKIP.

May I add that of the 2.7 million votes UKIP got 23 months ago (in the EU Election), 1.2 million were from Conservative voters (people who vote UKIP in EU Elections but who will back the Conservatives in a General Election). UKIP was actually lucky to get those votes from Conservatives (and the 600, 000 votes from Labour voters it secured in June 2004 at the EU Election).

To get these people "onside" (your words) - i.e. to get them to join UKIP and/or vote for it in every election (local, assembly/parliament/national, EU) cannot necessarily be done overnight.

A good start would be to show that UKIP is listening. This could have been achieved in the English local elections (just held) if UKIP had addressed the asylum/open border/EU influx/internal security issues that were important to voters. However, the politically correct brigade managed to get UKIP to abandon the issues in these local elections - and the result is just one or two council seat gains in the whole of England.

Bluemerle

MPs of other parties are not going to join UKIP unless and until UKIP starts to look and sound like a professional party. :shock:

I was surprised when Christopher Gill declared his intention to join. Mr. Gill is a very honest man which is unusual amongst politicians.