UKIP ‘main opposition to Labour and BNP in Barking wards’

pentameter · 27-04-2006, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

The BNP are firmly on the left, as Nick Griffin freely admits and Lord Tebbit also suggested.

Of course Labour and the Libs will deny this, but it's basicaly the truth.

This one is good for endless fun.

The fallacy is in believing that there's a convenient one dimensional spectrum on which political positions can be plotted and colourful expressions like 'somewhere to the right of Attila The Hun' are meaningful.

If you have two axes such as left and right wing economics and authoritarian/libertarian, it becomes more sensible to plot political beliefs. If anyone cares to check out

http://www.politicalcompass.org

They have an on line test that you can take and sets out where you fit in relation to famous political figures, political parties and even composers.

You could even have another axis coming out of the page to describe another property such as nationalist (not the same as authoritarian) and internationalist.

Lord Tebbit's letters to the Telegraph have been him having a bit of a laugh at the expense of nitwits. I was shocked to see that one of the answering letters made the silly assumption that withdrawal from the EU was a right wing policy. Whoever wrote that should have a chat with Tony Benn.

mkpdavies · 27-04-2006, 08:58 PM

The Nazi's (BNP) are firmly on the left authortarian axis. I'd go along with that.

David Holland · 27-04-2006, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by girlfriday

UKIP is to some extent trying its best to get around the "racist image" by effectively doing just that by demonising east Europeans, whilst actively encouraging non-white ethnic minorities to support them and stand for them as candidates.

We are not demonising anyone. However we are saying there have to be limits.
Now you want to limit on grounds of race. However that is not UKIP's view.
I wish people would trust but sadly you and the Lib Dems for very similar reasons wants to tell lies about us.

mkpdavies · 27-04-2006, 10:30 PM

Don't worry, it's nothing personal. They lie about everything. With such shining examples as Mark "I said nuffin about supporting the Nazis, honest guv" Collett, is it any surprise?

Start to worry when they work out how not to get caught. Could take a few millenia of evolution, but it could happen. :shock:

girlfriday · 27-04-2006, 11:30 PM

David I do not wish to tell lies about UKIP, that is a pretty feeble answer. Please explain, or justify, the UKIP article I suggested you make a comment on; namely the one in reference to the 30 million east Europeans coming to Britain.

Not only was that article badly written, it does nothing to alter some - SOME - people's views as UKIP being racist. After all, 'racist' can easily be translated as having dislike to people from a certain area, and threatening a potential invasion of east Europeans absolutely comes under that banner when claims of "30 million" are thrown around like this.

As regards the Mark Collett "I said nothing about the nazis blah, blah, etc", what would be your views MKPDavies on Winston Churchill's oft quoted views from his 1937 work "Great Contemporaries" where Churchill spoke of Hitler's "patriotic ardour and love of country", and continued on Hitler's rise: "cannot be read without admiration for the courage, the perseverance, and the vital force which enabled him to challenge, defy, conciliate, or overcome, all the authorities or resistances which barred his path". In another publication from the same year Churchill wrote of Hitler: "If our country were defeated, I hope we should find ourselves a champion as indomitable to restore our courage and lead us back to our place among the nations".

Heaven forbid our great war leader should EVER had ADMIRED Adolf Hitler!

Suthers · 28-04-2006, 07:39 PM

What can i say, ive flirted perhaps with them heavily after my disillusion with UKIP, but, i just dont think their the party for me anymore, even if at one point i may have thought they were. Im still young, i think its healthy to go through the whole political spectrum before coming to a final resting point, gives you a more open mind perhaps?

girlfriday · 05-05-2006, 09:46 AM

So much for UKIP's "the main opposition to the BNP in Barking"!

John Carter · 05-05-2006, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

The Nazi's (BNP) are firmly on the left authortarian axis. I'd go along with that.

All your lefties are in the "left authoritarian" sector. Reason why is that it's impossible for the "left libertarian" sector to exist in the real world...

The "left libertarian" sector can't exist in the real world because it expects everybody to embrace the incorporated philosophies. If a "left libertarian" sector actually manages to exist at some point, the very minute one person says "I want more cake", the whole system has to either move over to "left authoritarian" (by virtue of the government or the people slapping the extra cake guy down) or into "right libertarian" (if the government and people do nothing).

Thus, the lower left "left libertarian" sector is nothing more than an idiot's utopian fantasy. The whole concept of that sector is firmly against human nature.

I'm fair convinced that the political compass is actually a straight line from top left to bottom right but I haven't worked out the real-world implications of the "right authoritarian" sector yet.

And yes, I concur with Tebbit (who wasn't having a laugh): The BNP are lefties.

claire stone · 07-05-2006, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Wilde

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suthers

Modest? Ha, believe it or not i actually dont support the BNP, i used to be UKIP, but now they just dont hold any appeal anymore. I was simply stating the facts, which is tantamount to support in most peoples eyes. :roll:

Suthers, I remember that on March 11 in another thread you said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suthers

Indeed, i too am as english as they come with a smidgeon of northern irish, but though i see myself as english then British i still support the bnp, who have a greater chance of being elected and furthuring our course. And after all, arent the BNP also fighting for the same principles as the ED's and ukip? an english parliament and to not be a part of the eu? The BNP doesnt want to forcibly blend the english, welsh, scots etc, it wants to uphold and respect each ones unique identity within our isles.

I'm delighted to hear that you have now given up your support for the dismal BNP. I hope you are part of a trend.

Like I say, I think that despite the media hype the BNP have peaked. They may pick up a few additional council seats but are likely to lose some of the ones they are defending. 2004 was their big chance, and they blew it. Thank God.

GirlFriday, it may be true that the BNP losing all their seats would be bad news for any "anti-immigrant party" - I hope so, at least. UKIP is not such a party, and never will be. We have a policy of zero net immigration - ie the numbers allowed to immigrate in a given year kept roughly the same as the number who chose to emigrate in the same year. This policy would hopefully remove immigration as a factor in planning for housing and social services, which would be a great thing. But that isn't the same as being anti-immigrant. UKIP aren't anti- anybody, and a significant number of UKIP members and candidates are either immigrants or the children of immigrants.

Quote:

Originally Posted by girlfriday

Unfortunately for UKIPers, to some extent the fortunes of UKIP are directly related to the fortunes of the BNP and other patriotic "rightist" parties, as they attract voters from roughly the same political perspectives, differing only on matters of economics, race (and that is almost impossible to separate from the immigration issue no matter how hard you try) and global viewpoints.

So we only differ in our views on economics, race and global worldviews?

So how exactly did we do in Barking? All I've heard is the BNP's result.

girlfriday · 08-05-2006, 07:22 PM

As usual, such information as to how UKIP performed is often found elsewhere, rather than on a UKIP discussion site. Regards Barking, UKIP's percentage vote can be found on the BNP's election report, in a section slagging-off UKIP. Basically, they are now laughing hilariously at the fact that the BNP beat UKIP in every ward where the two parties fought each other. The article further states, that UKIP collaborated with Labour in an effort to stop the BNP.

One thing is clear, the combined BNP/UKIP vote in each of those wards, would have been 50-70% for the winning candidate, assuming that either party would have been capable of netting the entire combined poll.

If the BNP can achieve this level of support WITH the scale of anti-BNP material and hostile media around, then why the follocks can't "nicey-nicey UKIP, butter-wouldn't-melt-in-its-mouth", achieve ANYTHING despite having ELEVEN handsomely paid members of the hated EU Parliament and millionaire backers amongst its ranks??

It is patently clear that UKIP's sole objective now, has been two fold:

i) to change Tory Party policy on Europe, result - failure;
ii) to divert any potential BNP voters away from that party towards a more media-friendly movement, result - failure.

27-04-2006, 08:58 PM	#12 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 31,183 Party: Libertarian Party	The Nazi's (BNP) are firmly on the left authortarian axis. I'd go along with that. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

27-04-2006, 10:30 PM	#14 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 31,183 Party: Libertarian Party	Don't worry, it's nothing personal. They lie about everything. With such shining examples as Mark "I said nuffin about supporting the Nazis, honest guv" Collett, is it any surprise? Start to worry when they work out how not to get caught. Could take a few millenia of evolution, but it could happen. :shock: __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

27-04-2006, 11:30 PM	#15 (permalink)
girlfriday Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: england Posts: 238	space not race David I do not wish to tell lies about UKIP, that is a pretty feeble answer. Please explain, or justify, the UKIP article I suggested you make a comment on; namely the one in reference to the 30 million east Europeans coming to Britain. Not only was that article badly written, it does nothing to alter some - SOME - people's views as UKIP being racist. After all, 'racist' can easily be translated as having dislike to people from a certain area, and threatening a potential invasion of east Europeans absolutely comes under that banner when claims of "30 million" are thrown around like this. As regards the Mark Collett "I said nothing about the nazis blah, blah, etc", what would be your views MKPDavies on Winston Churchill's oft quoted views from his 1937 work "Great Contemporaries" where Churchill spoke of Hitler's "patriotic ardour and love of country", and continued on Hitler's rise: "cannot be read without admiration for the courage, the perseverance, and the vital force which enabled him to challenge, defy, conciliate, or overcome, all the authorities or resistances which barred his path". In another publication from the same year Churchill wrote of Hitler: "If our country were defeated, I hope we should find ourselves a champion as indomitable to restore our courage and lead us back to our place among the nations". Heaven forbid our great war leader should EVER had ADMIRED Adolf Hitler!

05-05-2006, 09:46 AM	#17 (permalink)
girlfriday Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: england Posts: 238	Barking Mad So much for UKIP's "the main opposition to the BNP in Barking"!

08-05-2006, 07:22 PM	#20 (permalink)
girlfriday Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: england Posts: 238	UKIP in Barking As usual, such information as to how UKIP performed is often found elsewhere, rather than on a UKIP discussion site. Regards Barking, UKIP's percentage vote can be found on the BNP's election report, in a section slagging-off UKIP. Basically, they are now laughing hilariously at the fact that the BNP beat UKIP in every ward where the two parties fought each other. The article further states, that UKIP collaborated with Labour in an effort to stop the BNP. One thing is clear, the combined BNP/UKIP vote in each of those wards, would have been 50-70% for the winning candidate, assuming that either party would have been capable of netting the entire combined poll. If the BNP can achieve this level of support WITH the scale of anti-BNP material and hostile media around, then why the follocks can't "nicey-nicey UKIP, butter-wouldn't-melt-in-its-mouth", achieve ANYTHING despite having ELEVEN handsomely paid members of the hated EU Parliament and millionaire backers amongst its ranks?? It is patently clear that UKIP's sole objective now, has been two fold: i) to change Tory Party policy on Europe, result - failure; ii) to divert any potential BNP voters away from that party towards a more media-friendly movement, result - failure.

28-04-2006, 07:39 PM	#16 (permalink)
Suthers Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 125	What can i say, ive flirted perhaps with them heavily after my disillusion with UKIP, but, i just dont think their the party for me anymore, even if at one point i may have thought they were. Im still young, i think its healthy to go through the whole political spectrum before coming to a final resting point, gives you a more open mind perhaps?

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