Can we please have a sticky about one issue politics

andypandy · 10-06-2006, 08:48 PM

I have stated on another thread why I feel that the word "Independence" should be dropped and replaced by a word like "freedom" or "liberty", as a party such as UKIP needs to have sort of ideological basis to define what it is and why it should exist in a post-EU Britain. It must be able to attract new supporters that join for reasons other than simply for leaving the EU, otherwise, UKIP will only ever attract a protest vote during elections. The Liberal Democrat Party has largely managed to improve on its previous Liberal incarnation, and do not forget that the Green Party was at one time the Ecology Party. Plaid Cymru has recently decided to change its name to simply "Plaid", and has ditched a logo that was one of the oldest party logos in Britain.

Britannist is absolutely right when he says that UKIP is boxing itself in and that is why UKIP must adopt a name that signifies not just a liberation from the EU, but promoting the whole concept of individual liberty and freedom.

It would not be that difficult to adapt the UKIP title with an additional word, such as "Liberty", so UKIP-Liberty - "the party of individual freedom", something like that. The cost has to be outweighed by any future gain in support from all liberty loving individuals, and is a must have to counter the idealisms of the three main party titles.

I can understand being against a name or identity change if the present ID works well and attracts wide spread support, but as my saying goes, "if it's broken, then FIX it".

adrianwainer · 10-06-2006, 10:49 PM

andypandy wrote

Quote:

Britannist is absolutely right when he says that UKIP is boxing itself in and that is why UKIP must adopt a name that signifies not just a liberation from the EU, but promoting the whole concept of individual liberty and freedom.

It would not be that difficult to adapt the UKIP title with an additional word, such as "Liberty", so UKIP-Liberty - "the party of individual freedom", ............

That's an elegant solution in that it retains the party's profile in the public mind by retaining "UKIP" in the party name whilst establishing the party is about more than withdrawing from the EU! 8)

And as for the logo, seeing as it practical to name change the party in the way set out by andy, the expense and effort of changing the logo then becomes a constructive and practical project when combined with the party haveing a name change.

Best and Warm Regards
Adrian Wainer

McUkip man · 10-06-2006, 10:55 PM

Niall Warry infered that the people may want an alternative Tory party. The fact the Conservatives have only 1 seat in the whole of Scotland demonstrates very clearly that north of the border want nothing to do with any kind of Tory party either official or alternative. To have a Tory image put upon UKIPScotland by UKIP central is doing UKIPScotland no end of damage and undermimng at a stroke all the hard work it is doing.

Rosie · 23-07-2006, 11:25 AM

Is UKIP Scotland a separate party to UKIP?

McUkip man · 23-07-2006, 07:01 PM

The answer is no. Why do you ask? As in what angle do you look at it from?

Rosie · 23-07-2006, 08:44 PM

Because you mention UKIP Scotland as if it is a seperate entity to the rest of UKIP, similar to the way UKIP Wales seems to prefer a seperate identity. If we are to progress with our aims, we all need to be working together, not going along with the EU agenda of divide and rule.

McUkip man · 23-07-2006, 09:06 PM

UKIPScotland is firstly and foremostly seeking to represent the people of Scotland.

Many people in UKIP or UKIP in the south of England don't realise that the four home nations are very diffirent in aspects of what is important and what the people in them want. ONE SIZE DOES NOT FIT ALL.

When UKIP at a central level says lets work together it means England or English membership make the decisions and the other three populations are to do as they are told. The people in the other home nations have no interest in being told what to do by England and untill UKIP respect that they will get nowhere in those home nations.

In short while UKIPScotlad is part of UKIP it must be allowed to act for it's self and even go against the main party line if that is what the people of Scotland want.

Rosie · 24-07-2006, 08:13 AM

Thank you for your answer, McUKIP man. If this is the way you feel, perhaps the SNP would be a better home for your political ideals.

Just for the record, I and many people in UKIP are well aware of the differing needs of UK countries and, indeed, within English regions but realise that to bicker over these differences will promote the EU agenda of breaking up the UK.

David Holland · 24-07-2006, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McUkip man

Niall Warry infered that the people may want an alternative Tory party. The fact the Conservatives have only 1 seat in the whole of Scotland demonstrates very clearly that north of the border want nothing to do with any kind of Tory party either official or alternative.

Not neccessarily true people in Scotland used to vote Tory and might do again.

However personally I do not want us to be a Tory, Labour or Lib Dem party all have caused this country harm and presided over a massive rise in crime over the last 50 years.

McUkip man · 24-07-2006, 10:01 AM

Rosie I have no interest in joininig the SNP and it is to easy for you to dismiss my statement by refering to the SNP.

However you prove my point that untill UKIP take on board my points they will get nowhere in Scotland. You said we should'nt bicker and let these diffirences get in the way. In reality that translates into, to avoid bickering we Engish will make up the policies and the rest must follow them.

Rosie you say bickering will promote the EU agenda however not respecting or accepting and allowing the differnces or respecting the decision and desire for devolution of the other home nations has done far more to help the EU in it's regionalisation than they could ever have done by themselves.

Yes bickering gets in the way and helps the EU but equaly or more so is UKIP having an extreme unionist core policy on par with it's anti EU stance.

10-06-2006, 10:55 PM	#23 (permalink)
McUkip man Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Shetland Posts: 360	Niall Warry infered that the people may want an alternative Tory party. The fact the Conservatives have only 1 seat in the whole of Scotland demonstrates very clearly that north of the border want nothing to do with any kind of Tory party either official or alternative. To have a Tory image put upon UKIPScotland by UKIP central is doing UKIPScotland no end of damage and undermimng at a stroke all the hard work it is doing. __________________ Born a free patriot die a free rebel

23-07-2006, 07:01 PM	#25 (permalink)
McUkip man Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Shetland Posts: 360	The answer is no. Why do you ask? As in what angle do you look at it from? __________________ Born a free patriot die a free rebel

23-07-2006, 09:06 PM	#27 (permalink)
McUkip man Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Shetland Posts: 360	UKIPScotland is firstly and foremostly seeking to represent the people of Scotland. Many people in UKIP or UKIP in the south of England don't realise that the four home nations are very diffirent in aspects of what is important and what the people in them want. ONE SIZE DOES NOT FIT ALL. When UKIP at a central level says lets work together it means England or English membership make the decisions and the other three populations are to do as they are told. The people in the other home nations have no interest in being told what to do by England and untill UKIP respect that they will get nowhere in those home nations. In short while UKIPScotlad is part of UKIP it must be allowed to act for it's self and even go against the main party line if that is what the people of Scotland want. __________________ Born a free patriot die a free rebel

24-07-2006, 10:01 AM	#30 (permalink)
McUkip man Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Shetland Posts: 360	Rosie I have no interest in joininig the SNP and it is to easy for you to dismiss my statement by refering to the SNP. However you prove my point that untill UKIP take on board my points they will get nowhere in Scotland. You said we should'nt bicker and let these diffirences get in the way. In reality that translates into, to avoid bickering we Engish will make up the policies and the rest must follow them. Rosie you say bickering will promote the EU agenda however not respecting or accepting and allowing the differnces or respecting the decision and desire for devolution of the other home nations has done far more to help the EU in it's regionalisation than they could ever have done by themselves. Yes bickering gets in the way and helps the EU but equaly or more so is UKIP having an extreme unionist core policy on par with it's anti EU stance. __________________ Born a free patriot die a free rebel

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10-06-2006, 08:48 PM	#21 (permalink)
andypandy Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 880	I have stated on another thread why I feel that the word "Independence" should be dropped and replaced by a word like "freedom" or "liberty", as a party such as UKIP needs to have sort of ideological basis to define what it is and why it should exist in a post-EU Britain. It must be able to attract new supporters that join for reasons other than simply for leaving the EU, otherwise, UKIP will only ever attract a protest vote during elections. The Liberal Democrat Party has largely managed to improve on its previous Liberal incarnation, and do not forget that the Green Party was at one time the Ecology Party. Plaid Cymru has recently decided to change its name to simply "Plaid", and has ditched a logo that was one of the oldest party logos in Britain. Britannist is absolutely right when he says that UKIP is boxing itself in and that is why UKIP must adopt a name that signifies not just a liberation from the EU, but promoting the whole concept of individual liberty and freedom. It would not be that difficult to adapt the UKIP title with an additional word, such as "Liberty", so UKIP-Liberty - "the party of individual freedom", something like that. The cost has to be outweighed by any future gain in support from all liberty loving individuals, and is a must have to counter the idealisms of the three main party titles. I can understand being against a name or identity change if the present ID works well and attracts wide spread support, but as my saying goes, "if it's broken, then FIX it".

23-07-2006, 11:25 AM	#24 (permalink)
Rosie Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Midlands Posts: 124	Is UKIP Scotland a separate party to UKIP?

23-07-2006, 08:44 PM	#26 (permalink)
Rosie Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Midlands Posts: 124	Because you mention UKIP Scotland as if it is a seperate entity to the rest of UKIP, similar to the way UKIP Wales seems to prefer a seperate identity. If we are to progress with our aims, we all need to be working together, not going along with the EU agenda of divide and rule.

24-07-2006, 08:13 AM	#28 (permalink)
Rosie Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Midlands Posts: 124	Thank you for your answer, McUKIP man. If this is the way you feel, perhaps the SNP would be a better home for your political ideals. Just for the record, I and many people in UKIP are well aware of the differing needs of UK countries and, indeed, within English regions but realise that to bicker over these differences will promote the EU agenda of breaking up the UK.