Thinking about the party organisation

John Page · 22-04-2006, 10:13 AM

Brendan started an interesting thread about a question he needed the answer to. Among other things it produced thought provoking information from Douglas Denny and a useful opinion piece from realwales.

If I were in the leadership I would be looking to run an awayday on the following theme - starting with a blank piece of paper:

UKIP has said publicly it intends to develop a full range of UK policies. Now, suppose we had no MEPs at all. How would we organise ourselves within our resources?

At that first stage in the discussion all references to the organisation we've got and to MEPs would be banned. We'd be asking how we could do the job best if we were starting from scratch.

Actually I think the broad outlines of this should only take a couple of hours to sketch out at the very most. This gives you your organisational objectives.

Then - and only as a second stage - it would be a matter of thinking about how best to deploy the people you've got - mainly on a volunteer basis. This tells you what you can do with what you've got at minimal expense. (And if the BNP can do it reasonably effectively, why shouldn't we.)

Compare that with your organisational objectives, and you can see where your biggest holes are. That tells you where to prioritise your scarce financial resources. This is stage three.

Only at stage 4 could MEPs be mentioned. This is to see how contributions from them can be fitted INTO phpbb_the template.

It seems to me that we are still organised to be essentially an anti-EU party, whereas we have moved on from that and decided we are going to be a party with a full range of UK policies.

Any comments on this? I've started a new thread (Brendan suggested his had run its course anyway) because I'd like to start by concentrating on stage 1, which is

Starting with a blank piece of paper, suppose we had no MEPs at all. How would we organise ourselves within our resources?

Remember, at this first stage in the discussion all references to the organisation we've got and to MEPs would be banned. We'd be asking how we could do the job best if we were starting from scratch.

So, please, no criticisms in this thread of what we've got - just suggestions of what we should look like if we were starting from scratch.

Anyone up for this?

B.A.Ware · 22-04-2006, 02:45 PM

Great idea John I'm up for it, i think we should start off with a list of personnel we would need to be a broad based party and then put it INTO phpbb_a family tree type structure.

I am busy at the minute but will give it a go later.

Anthony Butcher · 22-04-2006, 07:55 PM

This is an exercise that I was going to attempt myself, but I would very much like to see what others can suggest first.

kernow · 22-04-2006, 11:49 PM

[quote="John Page"]

UKIP has said publicly it intends to develop a full range of UK policies.
It seems to me that we are still organised to be essentially an anti-EU party, whereas we have moved on from that and decided we are going to be a party with a full range of UK policies.
quote]

John, I know what I am about to say will get right up your nose, but I can assure you that is not the intention!

I know I am going over old ground but first and foremost we must concentrate all our efforts on leaving the EU, clever people like you and many others on this forum ( and I'm not being sarcastic!) I know can put forward many good policies for UKIP to present to voters, but unless the EU either dies or Britain leaves, those policies can never be implemented and it'll end up sounding like people who say "What I'll do when I win the Lottery"
This is why I am such a keen supporter of Trevor Colemans billboard campaign!

Bluemerle · 22-04-2006, 11:54 PM

I think what we need to do is produce an attractive set of policies which will appeal to most like minded people and then say at the end, "of course, we will not be able to carry these out until we leave the EU".

B.A.Ware · 23-04-2006, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kernow

John, I know what I am about to say will get right up your nose, but I can assure you that is not the intention!

I know I am going over old ground but first and foremost we must concentrate all our efforts on leaving the EU, clever people like you and many others on this forum ( and I'm not being sarcastic!) I know can put forward many good policies for UKIP to present to voters, but unless the EU either dies or Britain leaves, those policies can never be implemented and it'll end up sounding like people who say "What I'll do when I win the Lottery"
This is why I am such a keen supporter of Trevor Colemans billboard campaign!

Kernow I really can not believe this, how the hell can we leave the EU if we don’t get MPs, how can we get MPs if we offer the voters nothing but the EU message.
It has been said by every political commentator that the EU is well down the list at general elections.

Look at the facts the BNP are forecast to get good results they are Anti EU do you really think the majority of these people will vote BNP because of it , I think not.

Kernow I think you are a good man but you are lost in your own world and do not speak to the average punter, as I’ve said before I speak to people on a daily basis and they ALL say the same SINGLE ISSUE PROTEST PARTY.

The strange thing is your beliefs will actually be the death of UKIP the last hope we have.

John Page · 23-04-2006, 08:10 AM

Kernow's post was irrelevant to the subject of this thread. Could we get back to that now, please?

Martin Harvey · 23-04-2006, 11:59 AM

In order to achieve our aim, we need to concentrate on the structure of our organisation and leadership at home in England and the rest of the UK. This national organisation needs to concentrate on winning votes at Local and Westminster Parliamentary elections. Our Party needs a structure with lines of communication both ways between the grass roots activists, and a 'Leadership' team that provides all the neccessary 'tools' for campaigning. In the East we have already have a system approved by the NEC, for the election of an Eastern Counties Committee, where the committee members would be elected on a County basis with branch participation.
At the top of the Party we need a leader and Party chairman, who are not MEPs who work almost entirely directing our national campaigns, organising policy and providing facts and figures etc. This leadership needs to be based in England, and have regular contact with the grass roots, probably by means of a 'Council' which would consist of members drawn from bodies elected by grass roots activists. I would suggest that 'Council' members be elected annually at 'Hustings' type meetings of activists held in the existing UKIP regions.
Martin Harvey.

B.A.Ware · 23-04-2006, 02:01 PM

Sorry John, can a moderator remove mine and Kernows post as the were both off topic.

brian lee · 23-04-2006, 04:16 PM

For the Party to get its act together, and in the absence of the national officers, NEC and MEPs having the wit and motivation to put a competent organisation in place, I think that some unpaid members of the Eastern Region are going have to do it for them. (Or even on their own behalf and sod'em).

Sorry John West, John Page and Martin Harvey, I think your time has come to save your country.

In Southend we have a lovely man, John Croft, one of the best political brains in the Party, standing in the local elections against the leader of the Tory Council. If we can get him elected, this will be a triumph, not for UKIP but for John and the dedicated workers in the Southend area. If he does pull it off we won't be asking any more, we will be demanding.

Love to all,

Brian Lee.

22-04-2006, 10:13 AM	#1 (permalink)
John Page Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Welwyn Hatfield (Herts.) Posts: 1,878	Thinking about the party organisation Brendan started an interesting thread about a question he needed the answer to. Among other things it produced thought provoking information from Douglas Denny and a useful opinion piece from realwales. If I were in the leadership I would be looking to run an awayday on the following theme - starting with a blank piece of paper: UKIP has said publicly it intends to develop a full range of UK policies. Now, suppose we had no MEPs at all. How would we organise ourselves within our resources? At that first stage in the discussion all references to the organisation we've got and to MEPs would be banned. We'd be asking how we could do the job best if we were starting from scratch. Actually I think the broad outlines of this should only take a couple of hours to sketch out at the very most. This gives you your organisational objectives. Then - and only as a second stage - it would be a matter of thinking about how best to deploy the people you've got - mainly on a volunteer basis. This tells you what you can do with what you've got at minimal expense. (And if the BNP can do it reasonably effectively, why shouldn't we.) Compare that with your organisational objectives, and you can see where your biggest holes are. That tells you where to prioritise your scarce financial resources. This is stage three. Only at stage 4 could MEPs be mentioned. This is to see how contributions from them can be fitted INTO phpbb_the template. It seems to me that we are still organised to be essentially an anti-EU party, whereas we have moved on from that and decided we are going to be a party with a full range of UK policies. Any comments on this? I've started a new thread (Brendan suggested his had run its course anyway) because I'd like to start by concentrating on stage 1, which is Starting with a blank piece of paper, suppose we had no MEPs at all. How would we organise ourselves within our resources? Remember, at this first stage in the discussion all references to the organisation we've got and to MEPs would be banned. We'd be asking how we could do the job best if we were starting from scratch. So, please, no criticisms in this thread of what we've got - just suggestions of what we should look like if we were starting from scratch. Anyone up for this?

22-04-2006, 11:49 PM	#4 (permalink)
kernow Uber Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 5,288	Re: Thinking about the party organisation [quote="John Page"] UKIP has said publicly it intends to develop a full range of UK policies. It seems to me that we are still organised to be essentially an anti-EU party, whereas we have moved on from that and decided we are going to be a party with a full range of UK policies. quote] John, I know what I am about to say will get right up your nose, but I can assure you that is not the intention! I know I am going over old ground but first and foremost we must concentrate all our efforts on leaving the EU, clever people like you and many others on this forum ( and I'm not being sarcastic!) I know can put forward many good policies for UKIP to present to voters, but unless the EU either dies or Britain leaves, those policies can never be implemented and it'll end up sounding like people who say "What I'll do when I win the Lottery" This is why I am such a keen supporter of Trevor Colemans billboard campaign!

23-04-2006, 11:59 AM	#8 (permalink)
Martin Harvey Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: West Essex Posts: 167	Thinking about the Party organisation In order to achieve our aim, we need to concentrate on the structure of our organisation and leadership at home in England and the rest of the UK. This national organisation needs to concentrate on winning votes at Local and Westminster Parliamentary elections. Our Party needs a structure with lines of communication both ways between the grass roots activists, and a 'Leadership' team that provides all the neccessary 'tools' for campaigning. In the East we have already have a system approved by the NEC, for the election of an Eastern Counties Committee, where the committee members would be elected on a County basis with branch participation. At the top of the Party we need a leader and Party chairman, who are not MEPs who work almost entirely directing our national campaigns, organising policy and providing facts and figures etc. This leadership needs to be based in England, and have regular contact with the grass roots, probably by means of a 'Council' which would consist of members drawn from bodies elected by grass roots activists. I would suggest that 'Council' members be elected annually at 'Hustings' type meetings of activists held in the existing UKIP regions. Martin Harvey.

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22-04-2006, 02:45 PM	#2 (permalink)
B.A.Ware Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Birmingham Posts: 4,773 Party: UKIP	Great idea John I'm up for it, i think we should start off with a list of personnel we would need to be a broad based party and then put it INTO phpbb_a family tree type structure. I am busy at the minute but will give it a go later.

22-04-2006, 07:55 PM	#3 (permalink)
Anthony Butcher Administrator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Long Ashton, Bristol Posts: 10,315 Party: None	This is an exercise that I was going to attempt myself, but I would very much like to see what others can suggest first.

22-04-2006, 11:54 PM	#5 (permalink)
Bluemerle Uber Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Dorset. Posts: 3,252	I think what we need to do is produce an attractive set of policies which will appeal to most like minded people and then say at the end, "of course, we will not be able to carry these out until we leave the EU".

23-04-2006, 08:10 AM	#7 (permalink)
John Page Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Welwyn Hatfield (Herts.) Posts: 1,878	Kernow's post was irrelevant to the subject of this thread. Could we get back to that now, please?

23-04-2006, 02:01 PM	#9 (permalink)
B.A.Ware Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Birmingham Posts: 4,773 Party: UKIP	Sorry John, can a moderator remove mine and Kernows post as the were both off topic.

23-04-2006, 04:16 PM	#10 (permalink)
brian lee Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: South Essex Posts: 618	For the Party to get its act together, and in the absence of the national officers, NEC and MEPs having the wit and motivation to put a competent organisation in place, I think that some unpaid members of the Eastern Region are going have to do it for them. (Or even on their own behalf and sod'em). Sorry John West, John Page and Martin Harvey, I think your time has come to save your country. In Southend we have a lovely man, John Croft, one of the best political brains in the Party, standing in the local elections against the leader of the Tory Council. If we can get him elected, this will be a triumph, not for UKIP but for John and the dedicated workers in the Southend area. If he does pull it off we won't be asking any more, we will be demanding. Love to all, Brian Lee.