Offshore prisons

Mini-mizer · 09-04-2006, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluemerle

Russian labour camps sound good to me :twisted:

I hope its hard labour :twisted:

E-P-K · 09-04-2006, 08:34 PM

The Benefits of offshore prisons would be excellent for the prisioners

They could take advantage of cheap tobacco laws.

£10 for a carton of Regal or a box of drum would cheer them up no end.

Mini-mizer · 09-04-2006, 08:36 PM

We could use all those disused oil platforms up there in Scotland as prisions - well most criminals are from Scotland so ship them back up there to rot

E-P-K · 09-04-2006, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mini-mizer

We could use all those disused oil platforms up there in Scotland as prisions - well most criminals are from Scotland so ship them back up there to rot

It will change from HMP (Her Maj Prison) to HMBPP (Her Maj Brittish Petrolium Prison)

spaman · 10-04-2006, 09:08 AM

We could also adopt more stringent and cheaper prison conditions for foreign undesirables while they were in our country......

For example, something like the Saudi open jails, where 30+ prisoners sleep on the hard floor, share one toilet, share one tap, and rely on relatives to feed them .......
...one might ask why should we support and feed these undesirables and keep them in the relative luxury of a British jail, when back home things would be much more basic anyway, and might encourage them to go back and stay there...

How many are we talking about ?

David Holland · 10-04-2006, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spaman

We could also adopt more stringent and cheaper prison conditions for foreign undesirables while they were in our country......

For example, something like the Saudi open jails, where 30+ prisoners sleep on the hard floor, share one toilet, share one tap, and rely on relatives to feed them .......
...one might ask why should we support and feed these undesirables and keep them in the relative luxury of a British jail, when back home things would be much more basic anyway, and might encourage them to go back and stay there...

How many are we talking about ?

I think 10% of prisoners in the UK are foreign citizens some/many of whom are not immigrants but "tourists" who smuggled drugs INTO phpbb_the UK

Mark Croucher · 11-04-2006, 07:17 PM

I thought this was a joke at first. Perhaps some of you can answer the odd question or two for my inquiring, journalistic mind?

What about on-going police investigations involving those already imprisoned for other crimes? Do we fly the police to them, or bring them back to the police? What about the cost of these extra trips? The police overtime? How about those with elderly relatives? Do we force 80 year old ladies onto planes to visit their wayward sons and daughters? What if the crime they are imprisoned for is not a crime in the country where the prison is? On what grounds could they be held? If they have committed no crime there, are we advocating locking people up when they haven't committed an offence as long as they're locked up overseas? If so, why do we object to the European Arrest Warrant? If not, how on earth can it work? Are we asking the host country to change its law to suit us? Why do we object to the EU then, as that's what it is doing to Britain? What about any appeals? How can they be conducted from overseas while ensuring the appelant receives decent legal advice from counsel? Do we fly lawyers about as well as police? Group 4 can't even deliver prisoners from Grimsby to Hull on time and without them escaping, so god help us if it was on an intercontinental scale.

What if someone dies as the result of abuse? Who is responsible? The host nation? Britain? No-one? Everyone? What about the rights of the prisoners? Does being convicted mean you lose all rights, or just some? Visitation rights - do we fly the entire family to Chad, or Belarus, or the Central African Republic, or just some of them? A significant proportion of the UK prison population is actually on remand and has not been convicted of anything - do we forcibly deport them too? What would happen the first time you have photographs published of a destitute single mum being torn from her young daughter as you forcibly deport her for her third offense of stealing nappies and babyfood from Tesco?

And that's just for starters. I'm sorry all, but this is just intellectually sloppy nonsense on stilts. I was under the impression we were fighting for liberty, freedom and democracy, not a grander version of Blair's police state.

Rgds

Mark

English-Patriot · 11-04-2006, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mini-mizer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluemerle

Russian labour camps sound good to me :twisted:

I hope its hard labour :twisted:

They was a case recently of two African illegal immigrants getting 2 years Hard Labour I believe for entering Russia without the correct visa's.
Homosexuality I believe all so carry’s a 2 year mandatory sentence of Hard Labour in Russia.

David Holland · 11-04-2006, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Croucher

I thought this was a joke at first. Perhaps some of you can answer the odd question or two for my inquiring, journalistic mind?

What about on-going police investigations involving those already imprisoned for other crimes? Do we fly the police to them, or bring them back to the police? What about the cost of these extra trips? The police overtime? How about those with elderly relatives? Do we force 80 year old ladies onto planes to visit their wayward sons and daughters? What if the crime they are imprisoned for is not a crime in the country where the prison is? On what grounds could they be held? If they have committed no crime there, are we advocating locking people up when they haven't committed an offence as long as they're locked up overseas? If so, why do we object to the European Arrest Warrant? If not, how on earth can it work? Are we asking the host country to change its law to suit us? Why do we object to the EU then, as that's what it is doing to Britain? What about any appeals? How can they be conducted from overseas while ensuring the appelant receives decent legal advice from counsel? Do we fly lawyers about as well as police? Group 4 can't even deliver prisoners from Grimsby to Hull on time and without them escaping, so god help us if it was on an intercontinental scale.

What if someone dies as the result of abuse? Who is responsible? The host nation? Britain? No-one? Everyone? What about the rights of the prisoners? Does being convicted mean you lose all rights, or just some? Visitation rights - do we fly the entire family to Chad, or Belarus, or the Central African Republic, or just some of them? A significant proportion of the UK prison population is actually on remand and has not been convicted of anything - do we forcibly deport them too? What would happen the first time you have photographs published of a destitute single mum being torn from her young daughter as you forcibly deport her for her third offense of stealing nappies and babyfood from Tesco?

And that's just for starters. I'm sorry all, but this is just intellectually sloppy nonsense on stilts. I was under the impression we were fighting for liberty, freedom and democracy, not a grander version of Blair's police state.

Rgds

Mark

Hi Mark,
1) The original post said :-
" wouldn't it be a good idea for prisoners who are not going to be released or will be deported on released to housed offshore ? " So therefore a lot of your objections are invalid. The idea is only for people who have exhausted all their appeals and are too dangerous to be released. Or foreign citizens who will be deported on release. This is not for shop lifters.
2) Regarding visitation rights obviously this would be a problem. Of course we would be saving quite a lot of money even if we spent £6K a year flying the yorkshire ripper's family out to country x we would save a lot of money
I realise that this is a radical policy but it was only a suggestion.
3) I thought one of the things we are fighting for is freedom from crime. I don't want a police state but nor do I want heroin dealers released because there isn't a space for them. If UKIP won power tomorrow what would we do about overcrowding ? Build more prisons ?
4) Regarding the legal objections. If they are insoluble then fair enough. Although I wouldn't be surprised if this happens in the US one day at least with foreign citizens.

marsipan · 12-04-2006, 07:08 AM

You need to look at what is happening in our prisons today. From what I hear there are just as many outside 'professionals' swanning aroung swinging their keys as there are prison officers.

The trend over the last 20 years has been to make sentences longer but make prisons cushier. A culture of prisoners being the victim seems to be the norm (forget what politicians say when being interviewed)

Tories, Labour - each as bad. Let's just be thankful there has not been a LibDem Home Sec as by now prisons would be a veritable knocking shop with visits for sex allowed no doubt.

View Poll Results: Offshore prisons
Yes	12	92.31%
No	1	7.69%
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09-04-2006, 08:34 PM	#12 (permalink)
E-P-K Newbie Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 7	The Benefits of offshore prisons would be excellent for the prisioners They could take advantage of cheap tobacco laws. £10 for a carton of Regal or a box of drum would cheer them up no end.

09-04-2006, 08:36 PM	#13 (permalink)
Mini-mizer Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Gollachy Posts: 15	We could use all those disused oil platforms up there in Scotland as prisions - well most criminals are from Scotland so ship them back up there to rot

10-04-2006, 09:08 AM	#15 (permalink)
spaman Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 894	We could also adopt more stringent and cheaper prison conditions for foreign undesirables while they were in our country...... For example, something like the Saudi open jails, where 30+ prisoners sleep on the hard floor, share one toilet, share one tap, and rely on relatives to feed them ....... ...one might ask why should we support and feed these undesirables and keep them in the relative luxury of a British jail, when back home things would be much more basic anyway, and might encourage them to go back and stay there... How many are we talking about ?

11-04-2006, 07:17 PM	#17 (permalink)
Mark Croucher Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Dartford, Kent Posts: 981	I thought this was a joke at first. Perhaps some of you can answer the odd question or two for my inquiring, journalistic mind? What about on-going police investigations involving those already imprisoned for other crimes? Do we fly the police to them, or bring them back to the police? What about the cost of these extra trips? The police overtime? How about those with elderly relatives? Do we force 80 year old ladies onto planes to visit their wayward sons and daughters? What if the crime they are imprisoned for is not a crime in the country where the prison is? On what grounds could they be held? If they have committed no crime there, are we advocating locking people up when they haven't committed an offence as long as they're locked up overseas? If so, why do we object to the European Arrest Warrant? If not, how on earth can it work? Are we asking the host country to change its law to suit us? Why do we object to the EU then, as that's what it is doing to Britain? What about any appeals? How can they be conducted from overseas while ensuring the appelant receives decent legal advice from counsel? Do we fly lawyers about as well as police? Group 4 can't even deliver prisoners from Grimsby to Hull on time and without them escaping, so god help us if it was on an intercontinental scale. What if someone dies as the result of abuse? Who is responsible? The host nation? Britain? No-one? Everyone? What about the rights of the prisoners? Does being convicted mean you lose all rights, or just some? Visitation rights - do we fly the entire family to Chad, or Belarus, or the Central African Republic, or just some of them? A significant proportion of the UK prison population is actually on remand and has not been convicted of anything - do we forcibly deport them too? What would happen the first time you have photographs published of a destitute single mum being torn from her young daughter as you forcibly deport her for her third offense of stealing nappies and babyfood from Tesco? And that's just for starters. I'm sorry all, but this is just intellectually sloppy nonsense on stilts. I was under the impression we were fighting for liberty, freedom and democracy, not a grander version of Blair's police state. Rgds Mark

12-04-2006, 07:08 AM	#20 (permalink)
marsipan Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 70	You need to look at what is happening in our prisons today. From what I hear there are just as many outside 'professionals' swanning aroung swinging their keys as there are prison officers. The trend over the last 20 years has been to make sentences longer but make prisons cushier. A culture of prisoners being the victim seems to be the norm (forget what politicians say when being interviewed) Tories, Labour - each as bad. Let's just be thankful there has not been a LibDem Home Sec as by now prisons would be a veritable knocking shop with visits for sex allowed no doubt.