Proposed Amendments to the UKIP Constitution

Anthony Butcher · 18-01-2006, 10:21 PM

Mark, do you think that it would be possible for us to include an analysis of the changes to the constitution in the Independence? Perhaps we could also include a brief for and against, so that people have a better idea of what they are voting for?

I would be happy to put together a couple of hundred words against Amendment 2, although it would have to be under a pseudonym because the NEC ballots will go out at the same time.

Or is it too late for the next edition?

B.A.Ware · 18-01-2006, 11:06 PM

I like Amendment 2, I didn’t see at as they have a reserved places but a maximum of two places will be available for MEPs.

I think this is a brilliant idea it is decentralising the power that has held Ukip in limbo for all these years.
MEPs should concentrate their time on Europe and promoting Ukip domestically.
I also think it is meant to make up for the fact they are well known and more likely to get voted in.

mkpdavies · 18-01-2006, 11:16 PM

Amendment 2 in full

Quote:

To amend the make-up of the NEC and to be inserted in the appropriate place in the Constitution.

(In the revised constitution these would replace clauses 7.6 and 7.7. In the unrevised constitution these would replace clause 7.6 and the two clauses below would be elided.)

7.6 The NEC shall normally comprise of 12 members elected to the NEC, the Party Leader and Party Chairman (who may be elected members), together with two members who shall be selected in accordance with rules to be made by the NEC from time to time from among the Party's elected representatives who receive in respect of their elected position emoluments commensurate with full-time employment. The NEC may determine that there may be ex-officio members. Ex-officio members shall not have a vote.

7.7 Election to membership of the NEC shall be restricted to paid-up members of the Party in good standing. These members shall neither be paid employees of the Party nor any of the Party's elected representatives who receive in respect of their elected position emoluments commensurate with full-time employment nor self employed contractors for services either with the Party nor with any of the elected representatives of the Party (provided that members who provide paid professional advice or supply goods or services on a casual basis to the Party or the Party's elected representatives from time to time shall not be excluded from standing for election to the NEC. Any dispute in relation to the foregoing proviso shall be conclusively determined by the NEC).

That clearly states to me, that the NEC will forcibly have the presence of two MEPs (or MPs one day), + the Chair and Leader.

So it isn't a maximum, but a guaranteed 2 MEP's. With the Chair and Leader who may, or may not be elected, this means 4 people straight off the bat.

That is weighting the NEC in my mind and removes power from the membership, which has to be wrong.

B.A.Ware · 18-01-2006, 11:26 PM

Quote:

together with two members who shall be selected

Didn't see that Matt you are correct as usual, it seems strange that they want to put this in :?:

mkpdavies · 18-01-2006, 11:29 PM

If you have 4 people from the upper echelons of the party on the NEC, it will be very easy to control it, with a few lackies and promoted buddies taking a few more spaces.

It's the kind of thing the old parties do and I don't like it one bit.

Swivel Eyed Fanatic · 18-01-2006, 11:49 PM

Has anyone on the NEC thought of having the campaign for clear english look at the constitution. How about that......a political party with a Clear English Charter Mark on their constitution.......it might actually help the ordinary member understand it.......for God's sake what are

Quote:

emoluments commensurate with full-time employment.

So what we need are more Lawyers.........VOTE NO to the constitution until it is written in clear, simple English which people can understand......

Quote:

with two members who shall be selected in accordance with rules to be made by the NEC from time to time from among the Party's elected representatives who receive in respect of their elected position emoluments commensurate with full-time employment.

Therefore, does this mean that two MEP’s could be “selected” to go on the NEC since now only they would be able to claim they received “emoluments commensurate with full-time employment”? If I, for example, were elected as a Councillor for my Local Authority then I would receive a Councillors allowance of £4,650 a year (before tax and NI) is that an emolument commensurate with full-time employment. In which case could I be selected for the NEC? Also the from time to time phrase would mean to me that once selected these two individuals stay on the NEC until they are thrown off by the NEC.....no maximum period is specified by "time to time"

Quote:

7.7 Election to membership of the NEC shall be restricted to paid-up members of the Party in good standing. These members shall neither be paid employees of the Party nor any of the Party's elected representatives who receive in respect of their elected position emoluments commensurate with full-time employment nor self employed contractors for services either with the Party nor with any of the elected representatives of the Party (provided that members who provide paid professional advice or supply goods or services on a casual basis to the Party or the Party's elected representatives from time to time shall not be excluded from standing for election to the NEC. Any dispute in relation to the foregoing proviso shall be conclusively determined by the NEC).

Surely, this disqualifies ALL MEP’s from standing. So MEP’s could only be on the NEC if they were one of the two “selected” members in receipt of emoluments commensurate with full-time employment.

The two amendements are over wordy in some areas and vague in the others.........

I will be voting NO on all the amendements.....

Anthony Butcher · 19-01-2006, 12:05 AM

I imagine that if you were a county and district councillor, it would have to count as a full time job and salary. However, a single councillor role is really a part-time position.

Why the constitution is favouring MEPs over councillors I have no idea.

As has been pointed out the MEPs will be selected, and not even voted in. The only reason I can think of for this mechanism is so that the leader gets to pick a couple of supporters. Given that these MEPs would be dependent upon the favour of the leader for their positions on the NEC, does this not immediately hamper their independence?

Swivel Eyed Fanatic · 19-01-2006, 12:18 AM

My Local Authority pays Cabinet Councillors £9,200 a year...is that full time.... Why all this fudge with "full time emolument" a 40-hour week at minimum wage equates to about £10,000 a year...so is that the cut off point?

The whole thing has obviously been written by some legal eagle who cannot use one simple word when three of four big ones will do.

Why not just say "The Party's MEP's, MSP's, MP's, London and Welsh Assembly Representatives will not be eligible for election to the NEC but will have two NEC seats reserved for them. These seats will be allocated by an open ballot of the elected members of the NEC and will be subject to re-selection each year. Due to the part time nature of their role Local Authority Councillors will be treated as ordinary members for the purpose of eligibility for election to the NEC"

Swivel Eyed Fanatic · 19-01-2006, 11:23 AM

Accirding to the Constitution there is a Party Rule Book:

16 THE PARTY RULE BOOK
16.1 The NEC shall establish a Rule Book which will detail the rules governing Constituency Associations; membership of standing and temporary committees; submission of motions for debate at the Party Business Meeting, the Party Conference and special and extraordinary conferences, the conduct of these meetings, the calling and conduct of elections to the Party leadership and the NEC, disciplinary procedures and all other rules and procedures forming part of the formal management and administration of the Party.

I askedcmy RO for a look at it.....he said he didn't have one.......as far as he knows there is one at Head Office but despite asking for a copy several times there has never been one forthcoming......

McUkip man · 19-01-2006, 12:14 PM

I only saw this on the party web site this morning. I will be voting against both amendments as the first one is not clear as to its intentions on Scotland. The second does not appear to help us to be grass roots. It is us at the branch level who make a diffirence working localy. I guess if we want to protect our stake in UKIP we should be asking questions of the N.E.C candidates if we get contact details in our mags.

18-01-2006, 11:29 PM	#15 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 31,183 Party: Libertarian Party	If you have 4 people from the upper echelons of the party on the NEC, it will be very easy to control it, with a few lackies and promoted buddies taking a few more spaces. It's the kind of thing the old parties do and I don't like it one bit. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

19-01-2006, 12:14 PM	#20 (permalink)
McUkip man Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Shetland Posts: 360	I only saw this on the party web site this morning. I will be voting against both amendments as the first one is not clear as to its intentions on Scotland. The second does not appear to help us to be grass roots. It is us at the branch level who make a diffirence working localy. I guess if we want to protect our stake in UKIP we should be asking questions of the N.E.C candidates if we get contact details in our mags. __________________ Born a free patriot die a free rebel

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18-01-2006, 10:21 PM	#11 (permalink)
Anthony Butcher Administrator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Long Ashton, Bristol Posts: 10,208 Party: None	Mark, do you think that it would be possible for us to include an analysis of the changes to the constitution in the Independence? Perhaps we could also include a brief for and against, so that people have a better idea of what they are voting for? I would be happy to put together a couple of hundred words against Amendment 2, although it would have to be under a pseudonym because the NEC ballots will go out at the same time. Or is it too late for the next edition?

18-01-2006, 11:06 PM	#12 (permalink)
B.A.Ware Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Birmingham Posts: 4,640 Party: UKIP	I like Amendment 2, I didn’t see at as they have a reserved places but a maximum of two places will be available for MEPs. I think this is a brilliant idea it is decentralising the power that has held Ukip in limbo for all these years. MEPs should concentrate their time on Europe and promoting Ukip domestically. I also think it is meant to make up for the fact they are well known and more likely to get voted in.

19-01-2006, 12:05 AM	#17 (permalink)
Anthony Butcher Administrator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Long Ashton, Bristol Posts: 10,208 Party: None	I imagine that if you were a county and district councillor, it would have to count as a full time job and salary. However, a single councillor role is really a part-time position. Why the constitution is favouring MEPs over councillors I have no idea. As has been pointed out the MEPs will be selected, and not even voted in. The only reason I can think of for this mechanism is so that the leader gets to pick a couple of supporters. Given that these MEPs would be dependent upon the favour of the leader for their positions on the NEC, does this not immediately hamper their independence?

19-01-2006, 12:18 AM	#18 (permalink)
Swivel Eyed Fanatic Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Tees Valley Sub-Region Posts: 331	My Local Authority pays Cabinet Councillors £9,200 a year...is that full time.... Why all this fudge with "full time emolument" a 40-hour week at minimum wage equates to about £10,000 a year...so is that the cut off point? The whole thing has obviously been written by some legal eagle who cannot use one simple word when three of four big ones will do. Why not just say "The Party's MEP's, MSP's, MP's, London and Welsh Assembly Representatives will not be eligible for election to the NEC but will have two NEC seats reserved for them. These seats will be allocated by an open ballot of the elected members of the NEC and will be subject to re-selection each year. Due to the part time nature of their role Local Authority Councillors will be treated as ordinary members for the purpose of eligibility for election to the NEC"

19-01-2006, 11:23 AM	#19 (permalink)
Swivel Eyed Fanatic Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Tees Valley Sub-Region Posts: 331	Accirding to the Constitution there is a Party Rule Book: 16 THE PARTY RULE BOOK 16.1 The NEC shall establish a Rule Book which will detail the rules governing Constituency Associations; membership of standing and temporary committees; submission of motions for debate at the Party Business Meeting, the Party Conference and special and extraordinary conferences, the conduct of these meetings, the calling and conduct of elections to the Party leadership and the NEC, disciplinary procedures and all other rules and procedures forming part of the formal management and administration of the Party. I askedcmy RO for a look at it.....he said he didn't have one.......as far as he knows there is one at Head Office but despite asking for a copy several times there has never been one forthcoming......