vikingboy

Why is it that UKIP has one of the most boring, if not THE most boring and uniformative website on the net for a 'major' political party (the 4th biggest it claims!)? At first glance, you would think that you are viewing a site for a pressure group, not a party that is pretending it's has a claim on nationa or local government.

All you get is EU EU EU blah blah EU EU blah blah, literally nothing else! Only occassionaly do you get attempts to make comments on happening events, but no idealogical stance on any other issue effecting the UK. Simply saying that the EU controls 70% or more of our daily life is not good enough, and just does not wash with the masses. Perhaps there is a fault in the way it is explained to the public. The case of the humble fridge is a good case for making a leaflet, as everything you put in a fridge (food) and every aspect of construction, energy useage and disposal, is determined and controlled by the EU. But then, UKIP never does anything SIMPLE. Even its leaflets are usually expensive and glossy with very little general policy references. As most of its supporters and members are 45 plus, why do they not produce LARGE PRINT material for easy and quick reading and greater immediate impact to a populace that has difficulty focusing on any tiny printed matter (Do we not all complain about the small print on anything?

THis is THE major problem that UKIP has, that it is simply not credible as general political organisation aiming to change the face of British politics with practical solutions. It needs a think tank, a sort of Gerry Anderson/Clive Sinclair type of forward thinking and innovation department to boldy go where no other party has; it has to think BEYOND leaving the EU, which presently seems to be a total blank.

Any complaints or criticisms addressed to UKIP by email are simply left UNANSWERED and IGNORED. This, unfortunately, is how UKIP has treated it's membership for the last 6 years, as a simple means to an end with as little input as possible from the plebish majority, with the party run by a financial and cultural elite of mercedes drivers and wine sippers (a bit like the EU actually!).

The party seems to deliberately ignore promising opportunities in its English heartlands and seems pre-occupied in wasting the money and time of its supporters and activists - and I use the term activists VERY lightly - on unwinnable seats in Scotland and Wales, areas that make up just 16% of all UK population. You have to establish and secure strongholds before you can expand INTO phpbb_the electoral wilderness. a mass leaflet of an area should be understaken by mailshots like many others do, or continued use of the billboards to advertise in prospective territory. But, first, they need to make the party ATTRACTIVE and DESIRABLE to join, not just relying on awakenings of the retired Tory generation that help bury us in the first place in the EU graveyard.

Before UKIP continue on about democracy in the EU, they would be better spending their time in sorting out a hopeless leader and unapproachable leadership clique within their own ranks and giving the membership the same choice as they promise the country - REFERENDUMS on major policy issues and organisation.

To maximise this, there should be two classes of member, a cheaper general supporters membership at say £5 with one or two annual bulletins, but no voting powers or committee rankings, and a more expensive executive membership at say £50-£100 with voting and committee rights, but only after say three years continual membership. Any one elected to represent UKIP will have the executive membership rights granted automatically, but should be obliged to immediately pay up the full executive membershup fees in advance in respect of their assumed time in elected office (ie, an MEP should immediately pay up 5 years fees in advance, non-refundable)

All members should get an initial activity pack of say 200 leaflets, several posters, and perhaps a few dozen envelope stickers to enable them to immediately raise awareness of UKIP in their area.

It would be so nice to think that UKIP COULD respond to ANY suggestions, but it seems so stuck in the mud, that is is simply organisationally incapable of reacting to new ideas, let alone implementing them.

Am I alone in thinking this ok UKIP?

Anthony Butcher

You aren't alone. We have been saying this for a very long time. However, there is a working group now in motion to look at the website and hopefully it will come to the conclusion that ther existing mess needs replacing.

I wrote a brief specification document for a new website here:
http://www.lechladegroup.org.uk/ukipwebsite.html

douglas denny

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The following cries of unhappiness in the wilderness deserves at least some sort of comment. Here are mine in a spirit of helpfulness, even if you do not agee with what I have to say:-

Because of money and manpower - not enough of both. Major parties have three or four full-time staff for their websites and a budget of many thousands to play with for the website alone.
UKIP works on a shoestring. Never in the field of political media has so much been done with such valour affecting so many .. by so few ....

In fact the website is in the melting pot at this very moment with a review by the new chairman David Bannerman who is a media/ PR man.

INCORRECT: Way out wrong! To say this indicates you have no idea of the power of a party like UKIP and it's effect. I have seen some of the nonsense "debate" on whether UKIP is a proper political party or a "pressure group" by the idiot 'bookeeper in Wales' who's agenda seems to be entirely to rubbish UKIP. He is a plant - an agent provocateur to try to destabilise UKIP. Ignor his rubbish, he cleverly spins a sticky net for the unwary and uninformed.

UKIP already HAS changed the face of British politics, and it is not out of the bounds of reason to suggest UKIP has changed European politics too - for good - in the same way Jimmy Godsmith changed it by forcing the weak John Major government INTO phpbb_conceding a referendum on the euro currency in the '97 election - which Lab and Lib Dims agreed to as well. If not for this we would already be in the eurozone, using euros, with a fixed rate of interest set by the European bank - and stuffed! 'good and proper'!

Similarly if UKIP had not won 11 seats in the European election in 2001 it is highly unlikely (I would say a certainty NOT) Bliar would have agreed to a referendum on the EU constitution - which in turn is unlikely to have forced France to agree to a referendum - and in turn gave the amazing NO vote in France and Holland. ...All ocurring as a follow-on of cause and event due to the intervention of UKIP in GB. This argument constuct is not exaggerated in my opinion - nor in Dick Morris'.

It is one of the few examples I can think of where GB HAS indeed affected our continental "partners" profoundly and momentously in the whole enterprise, which might in the course of written history go down as a defining moment. Laugh if you like at my comment - but Stalingrad was such a moment in the second world war. I doubt if anyone in the world thought at the time that it was a defining military defeat and the beginning of the end of Nazi-ism and the German military machine - but it was! You need the perspective of history to see it.

Also UKIP are responsible for changing at least 27 seats at the last election from what they would have been if we had not stood. The political effect of this is undefined and incalculable. If for example the Cons had 27 more seats in parliament what would have been the outcome in the long term on their credibility at the next election? Portsmouth North is a good example which I have knowledge of, where the outcome would definitely been different: the majority was within the voting numbers for UKIP.

Politics is not entirely about winning seats - though that obviously is the objective in mind always - it is about shifting the equilibrium INTO phpbb_a direction which you want. This takes TIME, a great deal of effort by a lot of people, and money. Especially MONEY.


The new chairman intends to do this.

Not by me they aren't.

And how do you suggest "making the party attractive and desirable" without the money, manpower, and media attention it requires to do so. Further if you think you can change the predjudices of the vast majority of the people "just like that" overnight you are nieve indeed. Politics is a LONG game, and will always be so. It takes years to change the status quo - and that is what we are doing. Only bloody revolutions change things overnight. Who knows? it might come to that one day .......


You have no idea of the complexities and costs of running a (fairly large) party. It costs tens of thousands of pounds for just one edition of the 'Independence News', and the same again to run a single membership election like the NEC election coming up soon. There are various democratic mechanisms to change 'major policies' within the party: representation to the NEC members, representation via chairmen of branches; appeals to the leader himself; representation to regional organisers; representation to the MEPs. If you really want to make a point you can be a nuisance to all or any of these and it will be heard. If it has any substance you can be assured it will find its way INTO phpbb_policy eventually.



Fair point. Not sure about other regiojns but in SE there is an information pack I believe.

UKIP might seem to be 'stuck in the mud' but actually is better at radical ideas and incorporating them INTO phpbb_policy than any other party except perhaps the Lib Dims. This statement indicated you are not familiar with some of the radical ideas in our manifesto, some of which were were stolen by others (Cons in particular) prior to the last election. The flat rate tax and scrapping of VAT is pretty radical for example - and is already being taken up in other (successful) countries because it is such a good practical idea. Only UKIP is suggesting we do the same here in GB - yet! You see - the Cons will take it over as their policy soon.

No you are not. But you should recognise that it is easy to criticise but not at all easy to deal with the points of your criticisms when you are actually there at the coal face digging away at the coal. It's harder than you think!
The people "at the top" are trying very hard to address all of the kind of problems/criticisms you mention. If you were there doing it too you would see they are doing their best with very little in the way of tools to get on with the job. As always MONEY is the biggest problem of all.

Best regards,
Douglas Denny.
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douglas denny

Correction:

...cause and effect .....

Douglas.

Anthony Butcher

I do think that things are starting to move now, and these NEC elections will hopefully cause a real shake up.

Anthony Butcher

Is this the chairman's role? I can see the NEC getting particularly annoyed if Mr Campbell-Bannerman starts making policy. He is entirely unelected and has no authority to do so. I can't see anything good arising from the chairman pursuing a policy formation role at this time.

Even if the new constitution is approved, he will still have to go through the party leader.

mkpdavies

It is if the leader delegated it to him!

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Anthony Butcher

Not under the current constitution it isn't. The NEC has political control at the moment:
He is heading for trouble if he is making up policy without NEC authorisation.

douglas denny

No No No. Tony you have a penchant for grabbing the wrong end of the stick. I didn't mean the chairman himself personally all one his own by himself alone is going to do this!
I meant he wishes to 'provide guidance', to bring consistency, to stengthen broad principles to establish and encourage research and information gathering, by researchers, policy paper writers 'think-tanks' and suchlike working un harmony withthe press office to disseminate information and influence policy making ......

Geddit now?

Words are so difficult sometimes ...... people get the wrong idea ...

Douglas.
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Anthony Butcher

Glad to hear it, and I fully support the pushing of new policy, but it must go through the proper channels. He did appear on the scene with a bit of a bang, talking about making UKIP INTO phpbb_a real party, which was very much at odds with Roger's new year message.