mkpdavies

DD, if I were you I wouldn't get too upset at vikingboy's attacks. I don't think UKIP's best interests are at heart, considering his full support of the BNP.

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John Page

The website could be hugely improved at relatively minimal expense.

douglas denny

No, not worried at all with attacks against UKIP. I enjoy demolishing daft criticism, and taking on board valid criticism and trying to do something about it.
In fact I take it as a measure of our success; the more vitriol we receive then the more we MUST be having an effect - we just carry on regardless anyway and confound the critics with 1) existing. 2) keep putting candidates in elections 3) peeing on their parade. 4) eventually obtaining our objective no matter what, and no matter how long it takes.

Even the 'bloody bookseller from Wales' can grizzle as much as he likes because his effect on this grand plan is precisely - NIL!

The BNP - well they might get one or two councillors here and there due to special circumstances in individual wards but will never get anywhere on a national scale. If there is one thing that the British people dislike it is real live extremists - and they are that.

For my part I'm fireproof against criticism because I have no ambitions other than getting my country OUT of the EU. I'm old enough, ugly enough, and my shoulders are broad enough to take it.

Douglas.
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douglas denny

[quote="douglas denny"]...........and another thing ......

If he is so disparaging about the website has he ever tried contacting Stuart Gulliford with sensible suggestions? Has anyone who does not like the website tried contacting Stuart? I know he is willing to listen and even if any suggestion is not taken up at least it will be received with interest.

They are always looking out for useful material to put onto the website if it is relevant and sensible and of journalistic standard.

Douglas.

mkpdavies

I think the look of the board has improved considerably over the last few months. I'd just load to see a broader range of content, other than the EU.

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vikingboy

DD, the 80% drop I refer to had nothing to do with membership; I refer to the drop in electoral support for a party that took some 2,600,000 votes, mostly in England in 2004, yet 12 months later saw that same electoral support collapse to a standing of barely 600,000, mostly in England. Now THAT is what I call a collapse of around 80%. Also, I can remember reading on the UKIP webiste around Feb/March of 2004 that party membership had reached 27,000 (as a asian gentleman had recently become the 27,000th member). If you say that had fell to 18,000, that amounts to something like 33%.

This is why UKIP needs a shakedown. As regards supporting this or that party, I didn't contribute hundreds of pounds and dozens of hours of activity with UKIP to have that effort rubbished by comments that I support the BNP. If anything, the BNP is at least a more honest party compared to UKIP; UKIP's comparatively recent adoption of "there are too many immigrants" type of blurb literally only appeared before the 2004 Euro election, I can find no reference of significance in any UKIP material between 1999 and 2001 or for the period between 2001 and 2004. In any case, frankly, I do not really care which party gets us out of 'Europe', as long as the job is done. Then, the fight for post-independence Britain will really start.

This issue of Europe has dragged on for 3 decades now, and has largely been made worse by the late arrivals of many now UKIP supporting Tories or Libby-Labourites that didn't give a damn until 1992 onwards. It is these cowards that for 20 years or more sat on their proverbials fiddling while Rome burned British independence one should be angry with. Get angry with those that sat on the fence with the excuse, like Farage continually drolls out, about believing it (the '75 vote) was for a truly free market, and that they were hoodwinked. Only a blind man gets lead up the garden path.

I do recall an elderly gentleman (now there is rare thing!) at a UKIP meeting in Chester over 5 years ago saying to Nigal Farage, that "if we don't get out soon, we will have no choice but to shoot our way out", much to the support of a large part of the 50-60 strong audience. I wonder how that might have looked on a "secret policeman" type of TV programme? It seems that extremists exist to some extent in all parties, desparate as many are, to see an end to this nightmare existance of semi-independence. Constantly slagging each other off is not going to achieve anything, and labelling blame does not help the struggle.

There should be no need for me or any one else to get high and mighty with each other as we are largely in it, not for party reasons, but a belief in the higher value of nationhood. Yes, you will get other posts on this site that may not entirely agree with or support UKIP as it stands, and yes, many will jump to UKIP's defence, but brushing the problems under the carpet will not help, nor will attempting to undermine any individual's opinions. By all means. thump the table, but allow us to at least be seated at the SAME table.

Anthony Butcher

I think that it is entirely unfair to compare an EU election with a general election. They use two different voting systems, which completely change the way people vote. FPTP grossly distorts the voting in favour of the big two.

I actually think party membership went up as high as 28,000. I remember it being trumpeted at the Bristol conference that it was up to 27,500, and I am 90% certain that Roger Knapman once claimed it had reached 30,000. He might have been exaggerating/rounding of course.

I was told that the losses had stopped at around 20,000, so I am somewhat disappointed to hear that we have dropped even further to 18,000.

I don't think that such a large loss of members in such a short period should be dismissed as normal practice; we should be examining why people are leaving and seeking to address the issues. We will need to mount a massive charm offensive to win them back over the coming months.

Percentage

Quite possibly,i enjoy a good scrap as much as anyone!
Probably not,given the facts!
Well i didnt & i'm sure others wont have,the fact our very own "duke" & PPC had to use the phrase "i think" proves that.
You do realise this is an open forum?Your manner seems to be symptomatic of the "shoebox" politics that is the higher echelons of UKIP.

If UKIP is ever to broaden its message & more importantly its appeal,then the leaders need to keep an eye on the bigger picture,developing an attitude that doesn't speak with an insular tongue
Good for you!

One Londoner

Or, more precisely, he attacks certain elements of the UKIP leadership. The targets change over time, but the modus operandi is consistent. It is instructive to note whom within the UKIP leadership GLW never attacks, and also that he consistently knows more about what is going on within UKIP than the NEC. For instance he has in the past predicted the lodging of complaints against members, and miraculously foreseen the outcome of the subsequent disciplinary action. Even an NEC motion explicitly forbidding leaks of confidential information to GLW and threatening dire consequences for the perpetrator(s) failed to stop the flow.

Doug Denny would be wise not to underrate his influence in UKIP.

prober

I is interesting and welcome to see Doug Denny's robust statements, however the interpretation of those that see UKIP as being in an awful state and little of substance being addressed remains valid. Taking up a few point of the many essentials only ...

Much can actually be done with little money, merely setting objectives and getting organised at the top to put people in charge of achieving those objectives. Instead few really seem to be in charge of any objective.

The morale of members is in a dismal state with the leadeship complacent and contemptous of those who have left in despair. Silence means people have given up making suggestions or anger (no point, nothing changes) & are just hanging in until a visionary new leader emerges.

The farce of the annual conference in which many important motions were censored out - meaning in reality there is no pathway for branches to put forward proposed change for a member vote - hence more despair at the irrelevance of branches and members in the eyes of the party leadership. ALL motions should be voted on through Independence news ballot paper route and propositions, to raise morale.

UKIP is not short of money or staff , for a start there are 10 MEPs with huge salaries and EU paid budgets and at least 12 full time paid staff, thats 22. members perceive with little left to generate UKIP as a credible 4th domestic party.

All MEPs should have a domestic portfolio also and be national spokesman for it. Each Regional organisers should be in charge of at least one central national initiative plus a proactive anti regionalisation scope role . Why dont they have job descriptions ? under used assets.

If UKIP is supposed to be a pressure group why does UKIP have no ACTUAL campaigns ? If you think it does which individuals are in charge of driving them forward ?

UKIP has no interest in educating the public on issues ( let alone trying to educate them that UKIP is the answer ) ... eg there is no website from which we can download . Indeed several key figures seem to be opposed to educating the public or selling UKIP and consider the media should do it .... yes like the Petrina/ Nattrass fiasco.

The general election showed that the public consider UKIP to be irrelevant
outside EU matters. What has UKIP done to change that perception ?

With the Lib Dem/Tory status, May 2006 local elections was an ideal opportunity for a broad relaunch of UKIP. No interest detected at the top.
This is not money itis intent, a plan, someone in charge and generation of central leaflets for branches to download and get printed at worst. The structure for this should have been in place 10 years ago. Why should branches bother if the leadership aint ?

The evidence buildling up is that UKIP is drifting INTO phpbb_May local elections with no clear macro objectives and no one really in charge ( other than for basic logistics).