douglas denny

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He has only chaired one meeting so far; and I can tell you it was a 'humdinger' of a meeting. Though it is not possible to give detail with confidentiality constraints, I can say the first item was probably the most difficult for any chairman to deal with (and in his very first meeting) I have ever experienced in any meeting I can think of in 30 years - which he met in a highly professional way, carefully assessing all points, dissecting the issue, allowing all to say what was necessary, repeatedly if necessary, not leaving it alone until dealt with satisfactorily with general concensus by all present. He is clearly intelligent, and a mover and shaker. I think it is fair to say at this early stage there will be very positive directon and results in the future with this chairman.

Douglas.
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Anthony Butcher

Yes, I like the fact that he looks pro-active so far, and has a desire to get INTO phpbb_the public and party eye. It is good to hear that he knows how to chair a meeting too.

douglas denny

He's no mug, that's for sure.
I would dearly like to send you details of the listing of ideas/thinkpieces for discussion which DB gave to the meeting, but cannot for obvious reasons. Suffice to say it will be forwarded (after discussion by the NEC) in due course for discussion by the membership, and some are a breath of fresh air. One IMO is absolutely brilliant and should knock the wind out of the other parties sails completely. ... just to whet your appetite .....

Douglas
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mkpdavies

Stop teasing us. We aren't used to such positivity.

I have to say, everything I have heard so far has been highly impressive. Looking forward to seeing how the party develops from here.

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Percentage

Well unless you make yourself unequivocally clear that's hardly surprising is it?

Who on earth is the "bookeeper from Wales"? If you are going to use terminology such as "idiot",you should at least have the decency to state without question who you are insulting! We have had a significant influx of Welsh posters recently but i dont remember any of them specifically going on about bookeeping!

Mind you,with the Welsh having a famous fiery temper,i can well understand your particular need to obfuscate!

mkpdavies

I think he means Greg Lance-Watkins. Geezer who has been tres critical of UKIP leadership for some time.

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Karen

Several points here need more thought. Are we wasting resources chasing after unwinnable seats in Wales and Scotland or are we wasting resources chasing after unwinnable sets in England too, like South Staffs? I can see the point in Hartlepool where we got plenty of publicity (because of Mandelson and Kilroy) but now we get little coverag from it. In another strand someone calculated how much all the parties spent per GE vote gained: we were the least productive, probably from spreading ourselves too thinly. We can learn from the BNP in this who seem to be more productive with small resources than we do by concentrating them.
I also wonder whether the NEC really does control the party. When Knapman goes then we shall know - although leader and sincere, he is weak and the real power is behind the throne

vikingboy

With respect to DD, you have no idea of my background in UKIP or how long I spent leafleting and fighting for the anti-EU cause. I have been inolved in anti EU/Common Market causes since the 1970's, and was a member a UKIP from 1998 up to about 2001, acting as a leafleting coordinator for a UKIP GE candidate. To suggest I "have no idea how a large political party works", or words to that effect, assumes that YOU do. Sorry to have misjudged you, oh! great keeper of the forbidden knowledge.

I was there in the 1999 AGM when I witnessed the disgraceful coup to oust the then membership elected leader, Michael Holmes. Whilst I did not particularly think he was 'brilliant', the actions on day two of that meeting brought the party INTO phpbb_total meltdown for months afterwards, with lawsuit and counter lawsuit, no doubt wasting tens of thousands of pounds. The stealing of membership addresses, unsolicitored begging letters to support this or that faction, getting TWO voting ballots for a NEC election, they were dark times indeed.

Whether-or-not you get replies from UKIP head office is totally beside the point; I DO NOT, no matter how subtle the request (ie "why does UKIP not supply pre-printed recruitment leaflets for general distribution available to the general public?). I do not even get an acknowledgment. I have been close to UKIP now for the last 7 years and seen first hand how leading party officials by-pass long standing members in favour of "newcomers" who promise the earth yet cannot even deliver soil on the shoe from relentless street activity.

If you believe that the votes in France, Poland, Netherlands, Denmark or any other EU state that has large anti-Federal sympathies is due to the mischieviously set-up (by the British media) UKIP publicity drive that appeared before the election in 2004 resulting in the emmergence of the new messiah of Kilroy and the election of (then) 12 UKIP MEPS (with his equally suspicious fall from grace), then you are seriously deluded. The fact is, that UKIP was given as much credence as possible before that election to ensure that the BNP was marginalised enough not to have any elected MEPs (perusal of various left-wing websites at that time detailed the aim to tactically vote UKIP to STOP the BNP, not to send a message to the EU).

As regards to any detailed policies, where are they found? In UKIP's literature? No! On its billboard adverts? No! For all to see and find easily on the website? Well, you have to dig deep, and these by the way, have largely only appeared in the last 18 months, as UKIP was found to be singularly incapable to produce a readily available policy manifesto for YEARS, despite many, many people requesting one.

I really hope that those within UKIP can turn it around, but the fact remains, that UKIP is still not a credible political party for local and national elections, and seems only to be able to benefit from any immediate anti-EU publicity at the time or where the election has a specifically EU theme. Its results in elections since 2004, clearly indicate that UKIP is simply not getting its message across, as it is seen purely as an anti-EU presure grouping by voters. Its two successes, in the north east and the midlands are largley flukes, as UKIP needs to deliver outside of by-election opportunities. (Hartlepool was technically a bad result as UKIP saw a substantial loss of support from the 2004 EU vote to the by-election some months later)

The collapse in UKIP support within 12 months from 2004 to 2005 was as much as 80% - and you still think UKIP is a major player in politics? I despair at the possible canditure in Dunfermline, as yet another depressingly bad result will further anger dedicated activists desparate for success. Change is needed URGENTLY with UKIP. It simply cannot rely on 11 MEPs for their occassional bursts of publicity, not all of it particularly good.

douglas denny

I made an error in the terminology: correction - bookseller not bookkeeper. (I'm always making typos and Freudian slips as I type so quickly, and scan briefly for errors, missing most).

Everyone knows who the "bloody bookseller from Wales" is.

I have been insulting him (with good reason, as he insults UKIP and its leadership with impugnity) for some time on his own 'forum'. He deserves it as he insults others with malice aforethought, and it happens to be close to the truth as he is a daft as a box of frogs.

This expression was used to great effect by Roger Knapman - and it has stuck. I like it. It is very amusing and expressive both.
He knows who I am, and the individual concerned knows who he is and that is enough. He is quite mad. You only have to see the appearence of his messages and the way he writes to understand. It will give you some fun to find out who it is ....

I was not obfuscating - Everyone knows "the bloody bookepr from Wales ........ (Similar to that other famous expression: "No one expects the Spanish Inquisition ...").

I am a quarter Welsh by the way ......

Douglas.

douglas denny

I have had no difficulty finding the manifesto on the website for the two previous elections.


This is your opinion and you are entitled to it. I think otherwise. Like I said results in winning seats, though the prime objective, is not the only way of influencing politics. And what would have us all do then? ...Nothing? ...and lie back and have our bellies tickled by the Great and Good of the EU?
Everyone in UKIP is working for the cause .. it might not be perfect in your estimation but it's all we've got.

Where do you get your figures for this nonsense? The party membershiop peaked at around 25,000 at the Euro election; it has dropped to around 18,000 now which is 28% drop.
You are forgetting it is NORMAL to have substantial membership drop in mid-term between general elections, in ALL parties. Further - that the drop with UKIP is much less than the other parties. Cons have dropped from 400,000 down by half; Lab from around 350,000 to 180,000 again near 50%.


All you despair at is the lack of what you call 'results'. You are forgetting like most, the other important principle - you cannot run until you can walk; you cannot walk until you stand up on your hind legs from crawling ......
We are a political oparty and there is no use in being in it unless we are prepared to PUT CANDIDATES INTO phpbb_ELECTIONS.
If you don't want to do that you might as well pack up and go home - or stand as an independent.

I hear all the blather - but what change do you suggest as mind shatteringly obvious to you that is not so to others, that is going to achieve your objective? Have you a cool couple of million or so to give to the cause? I can guarantee some definite imrovements then ...... like to the website; to leaflets; to poster sites ...etc etc

regards,
Douglas.
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