BASILDON BOY

Over 1 million plastic bags are used each day - they take hundreds of years to rot away in the ground - how much oil is used to produce them?

Ireland manages to reduce consumption of plastic bags with their bag tax - no ridicule there?

Why do we always laugh at environmental issues?

Hartlepool

Burn all bags,at least we will get some thing back from their production and remove the continual mess they make.

BASILDON BOY

I'm afraid that will be against EU emisions regulations!

Hartlepool

Sorry BB,lets push the EU instead of blindly following their directives. Burn the bagsa,logs,coal,peat and anything else that is being burnt in the EU.

We can not continue to abide by the rules of the EU while all other Members of it disregard rules that do not fit in with their plans,budgets or schedules.

With regard to EU Emissions,as far as i'm concerned,they can blow them out of their arses.

SGK

Where are your figures from? That Lib Dem site claims 29 thousand million already this year. Your question is essentially the one I'm asking; how much oil do they use?
Plastic bags use a small amount of plastic. If you concentrate on taxing or outlawing something, making life a little more awkward, but fail to address the real issues, such as an item that uses 100 times as much plastic, then you are leaving yourself open to ridicule.
That is my point. A policy regarding a reduction in the use of plastics overall and a comprehensive recycling scheme (that actually works) is far more valuable.
No one is laughing at environmental issues, but you've fallen INTO phpbb_the trap of rubbishing me for daring to question 'one who is trying to save the planet'.
In all these statistics, I'll bet you can't find the increase in plastic bin liner sales in Ireland when they switched to paper bags.

Tom Wilde

SGK, am I right in thinking that in Germany there are no supermarket plastic bags? I've heard you have to bring your own cardboard boxes, shopping bags (Remember them? My grannie had one) or shopping trolley etc to put your stuff INTO phpbb_at the checkout. Actually this makes good sense to me. But if that's right, how did the Germans persuade their supermarkets to stop providing plastic carrier bags? Was it voluntary or was there a tax?

BASILDON BOY

Wow 29 thousand million already!

If we ignore such a big issue!

SGK

No that's not true. Supermarkets provide bags but charge for them. (Although some offer paper ones for free). This leads people to look for alternatives and also means that the bags themselves are often heavy duty (since you're paying) which means you can re-use them.
(In other shops and department stores, etc, there is no difference to the UK.)
This leads to a culture of people bringing their own bags. We have some fold down box-crates for when we do a big shop, or if I'm just picking a few things up I'll stick a couple of bags in my pocket.
I have no idea whether this has been achieved through a tax or not. Knowing Germany, my life's earnings would be on a tax

This all sounds very good, however, there are other considerations. My experience is this: when I was in the UK I used to reuse my cheapy bags as bin liners - or sometimes to shop. Hardly any went straight in the bin. Since coming to Germany, I have started buying plastic bin liners regularly. Not only that, but the several plastic crates that we have bought for shopping are sturdy things made out of plastic. I have no idea, but it must take the equivalent of thousands of shopping bags to make each one.
If every household in Germany has bought bags and crates made out of some form of plastic to avoid buying disposable shopping bags, is this any better?
PS personally I prefer the crates, because cheap shopping bags are difficult to carry, cut INTO phpbb_your hands and snap.

Basildon Boy; if the Lib Dem website told you Father Christmas was an axe murderer, would you be bricking up your chimney?

C_steam

This site provides a good insight and seems reasonably balanced regarding the plastic bag debate:-

http://www.greenfeet.net/newsletter/debate.shtml

Mark Croucher

Good point, but on the same lines remember that you can run a diesel engined car on cooking oil rather than diesel. Remember to add some methanol though.

If i hadn't seen the way politics works, I'd be amazed that rather than heavily using surplus cooking oil and the sole product of the otherwise completely useless oil seed rape we still pump diesel in. Several friends of mine run their cars on nothing but cooking oil, which they kindly take free of charge from their local kebab shops - the shops have to pay for disposal otherwise - and after straining and adding methanol. tip it straight INTO phpbb_the fuel tanks. Economy is the same as diesel, and no damage to the engine. The only slight drawback is the vague smell of chips as you're driving along. Honestly!

Environmentally, if global warming existed it would be a major help in stopping it But of course, the lobbying interests of thepetrochemical industry would put a stop to any serious attempt to shift to 100% biodiesel.

In terms of joined up policy, how about getting all those farmers who are paid not to produce crops to grow the raw material for biodiesel instead, and make it a zero duty fuel. Environmentally friendly fuel for private vehicles which helps British farming and an infinitely replenishable, cheap alternative for motorists. Look at how much cooking oil costs next time you're in the supermarket..... 50p per litre?

Rgds

Mark

PS and before you say it, the methanol comes from grain alcohol, not a petrochemical process.....