PLASTIC BAG TAX AND THE PLASTIC BAG CONSPIRACY

mkpdavies · 17-01-2006, 07:59 PM

I'm all for giving people options for not using plastic if possibe. As omeone else said though, you need more that just "sin taxes" to promote this. How about giving people money off for using their own bags? Or how about promoting the use of other materials by making them zero tax for the companies? America still uses strong papper based bags, created from tree farms. Why can't we do that?

Phat Boy Fat · 18-01-2006, 06:31 PM

We can. We can do what MKD suggests. All we have to do is win a majority in Parliament and implement it as policy :!: .

We can have paper bags over plastic ones. They could be made from farmed trees or commercial hemp. The trouble is placcy bags are amost certainly cheaper ( I guess, in my capacity as an international plastic bag cost expert :wink: ). Therefore a 'sin tax' is needed to distort the market in favour of the greener alternative.

(But wait :!: I thought we were free market traders :?: We can't be seen to distort a market with a tax, we would look like a bunch of socialists :shock: )

mkpdavies · 18-01-2006, 07:41 PM

I had a piece of mail from a charity today, about sponsoring an African child. It was in conjunction with the Grauniad, but the thing that interested me the most, was the bag it was in. It looked like your normal, average platic bag, but printed on the bag was the words "100% biodegradble".

Perhaps companies should be able to by these biodegradable bags with a lot less, if any tax. That would promote their use.

Sarumano · 19-01-2006, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Only a party that is independent of the EU can be green we should and could be the home of the green voter.

I ought to point out, being slightly green about the gills, that a lot of the 'EU' green initiatives are in fact international agreements in the true sense of the word; the EU simply supplies the propaganda, implying that it and it alone is responsible for green issue resolving. The Kyoto agreement, for instance, has b****r all to do with the EU. The trans-european wetland restoration also has b****r all to do with the EU.

Oh, and plastic bags are fine provided they are a) recyclable and b) degradable.

PS Britain will NEVER be self-sufficient in renewable energy. For our current use, wind farms or solar farms or fuel crops would take up more acreage than the whole of the British Isles. Nucular HAS to be the infill.

Hereward the Wake · 19-01-2006, 03:35 PM

I am against a plastic bag tax.

We should encourage biodegradable plastic bags.

This tax would encourage car use. Can you imaging taking packed, heavy paper bags on a bus?

Paper bags use more space in the land fill site as they are bulkier.

There are many better things we can do to protect the enviroment.

C_steam · 19-01-2006, 06:58 PM

Given the cost and increasing scarcity of oil - should we be considering the usage of plastics in general?

Making bags seems a damn waste of a precious resource which could otherwise be grown.

Bring back wicker!

mkpdavies · 19-01-2006, 07:53 PM

Yep, wicker, hessian, you name it. Positive encouragment in the use of these materials is the way to go.

C_steam · 19-01-2006, 07:56 PM

And - off topic - I should say that I am sitting here in my lovely sweatshirt.

http://www.cafepress.com/lechlade.35410284

thanks matt!

BASILDON BOY · 21-01-2006, 10:54 PM

I found this LibDem website (no it doesn't contain gay porn)

Has an interesting 'plastic bag' counter showing the numbers used in the UK.

Nearly 30 million already this year! Most will end up in landfill sites

http://66.249.93.104/search?q=cache:...hl=en&ie=UTF-8

SGK · 21-01-2006, 11:23 PM

Although I understand the sentiment, I think as a policy it has a large potential for ridicule. How much plastic does a plastic bag use? How many are re-used for rubbish bins instead of plastic bin liners? How many plastic bags are the equivalent of, say, a heavy-duty bleach bottle? So therefore how much more beneficial would a policy be on recycling plastic packaging than forcing people INTO phpbb_using paper bags for their groceries?

I think generally green taxes fail in their intended purpose. The price simply increases and people accept the new cost of things. A serious attempt to reduce the use of plastics through tax would have to target the production of plastics, probably at the raw materials phase. i.e. how many plastic-bags worth is a set of plastic garden furniture and how much tax would have to be applied to make a wooden set cheaper?
What about things that we can only realistically make out of plastic? Television casings or car inners? Are there viable alternatives? Because putting a draconian tax on plastic bags but not accepting an increase in the cost of tellies and cars is simply applying the rules of 'feel good' environmentalism.

17-01-2006, 07:59 PM	#11 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 31,183 Party: Libertarian Party	I'm all for giving people options for not using plastic if possibe. As omeone else said though, you need more that just "sin taxes" to promote this. How about giving people money off for using their own bags? Or how about promoting the use of other materials by making them zero tax for the companies? America still uses strong papper based bags, created from tree farms. Why can't we do that? __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

18-01-2006, 07:41 PM	#13 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 31,183 Party: Libertarian Party	I had a piece of mail from a charity today, about sponsoring an African child. It was in conjunction with the Grauniad, but the thing that interested me the most, was the bag it was in. It looked like your normal, average platic bag, but printed on the bag was the words "100% biodegradble". Perhaps companies should be able to by these biodegradable bags with a lot less, if any tax. That would promote their use. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

19-01-2006, 07:53 PM	#17 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 31,183 Party: Libertarian Party	Yep, wicker, hessian, you name it. Positive encouragment in the use of these materials is the way to go. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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18-01-2006, 06:31 PM	#12 (permalink)
Phat Boy Fat Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Bournemouth, Dorset Posts: 134	We can. We can do what MKD suggests. All we have to do is win a majority in Parliament and implement it as policy :!: . We can have paper bags over plastic ones. They could be made from farmed trees or commercial hemp. The trouble is placcy bags are amost certainly cheaper ( I guess, in my capacity as an international plastic bag cost expert :wink: ). Therefore a 'sin tax' is needed to distort the market in favour of the greener alternative. (But wait :!: I thought we were free market traders :?: We can't be seen to distort a market with a tax, we would look like a bunch of socialists :shock: )

19-01-2006, 03:35 PM	#15 (permalink)
Hereward the Wake Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Stoke-on-Trent, Staffordshire. Posts: 237	I am against a plastic bag tax. We should encourage biodegradable plastic bags. This tax would encourage car use. Can you imaging taking packed, heavy paper bags on a bus? Paper bags use more space in the land fill site as they are bulkier. There are many better things we can do to protect the enviroment.

19-01-2006, 06:58 PM	#16 (permalink)
C_steam Super Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Paddling up 5hit creek..... Posts: 7,803	Given the cost and increasing scarcity of oil - should we be considering the usage of plastics in general? Making bags seems a damn waste of a precious resource which could otherwise be grown. Bring back wicker!

19-01-2006, 07:56 PM	#18 (permalink)
C_steam Super Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Paddling up 5hit creek..... Posts: 7,803	And - off topic - I should say that I am sitting here in my lovely sweatshirt. http://www.cafepress.com/lechlade.35410284 thanks matt!

21-01-2006, 10:54 PM	#19 (permalink)
BASILDON BOY Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: N'Djamena, Chad Posts: 1,852	I found this LibDem website (no it doesn't contain gay porn) Has an interesting 'plastic bag' counter showing the numbers used in the UK. Nearly 30 million already this year! Most will end up in landfill sites http://66.249.93.104/search?q=cache:...hl=en&ie=UTF-8

21-01-2006, 11:23 PM	#20 (permalink)
SGK Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,237	Although I understand the sentiment, I think as a policy it has a large potential for ridicule. How much plastic does a plastic bag use? How many are re-used for rubbish bins instead of plastic bin liners? How many plastic bags are the equivalent of, say, a heavy-duty bleach bottle? So therefore how much more beneficial would a policy be on recycling plastic packaging than forcing people INTO phpbb_using paper bags for their groceries? I think generally green taxes fail in their intended purpose. The price simply increases and people accept the new cost of things. A serious attempt to reduce the use of plastics through tax would have to target the production of plastics, probably at the raw materials phase. i.e. how many plastic-bags worth is a set of plastic garden furniture and how much tax would have to be applied to make a wooden set cheaper? What about things that we can only realistically make out of plastic? Television casings or car inners? Are there viable alternatives? Because putting a draconian tax on plastic bags but not accepting an increase in the cost of tellies and cars is simply applying the rules of 'feel good' environmentalism.