UKIP claims to lift lid on 'stupid' recycling scheme

Anthony Butcher · 03-11-2005, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dartford Times Wrote

Dartford Times:

Quote:

UKIP claims to lift lid on 'stupid' recycling scheme

A member of the U.K. Independence Party claims Dartford Borough Council's new recycling drive will not help the environment.

Mark Croucher, 39, of Bayly Road, Dartford, said new paper recycling bins handed to residents over the past few weeks by the council are fatally flawed.

He said: "We are told you have to leave the lid off them when you stick them outside. Threse are litttle buckets filled up with paper.

"Don't they realise we live in England? As soon as it rains, that paper will become soaking wet and that will effectively double the weight of the contents."

Mr Croucher added that the extra weight every time it rained would hamper the fuel economy of the lorries transporting the waste, making the exercise pointless.

He added: "You are basically cancelling out any environmental benefit you might get from recycling the paper by the massive increase in fuel use every time it rains. How stupid can you get? This has [council leader] Leadbetter's fingerprints all over it."

The UKIP press officer pointed out that, even if it doesn't rain, the British climaete will lead to paper being blown all over the streets of Dartford. "It's the sort of idea you couldn't make up if you tried,' added Mr Croucher.

The reason lids cannot be lift on the recycling bin is to make it easier for refuse collectors to take away the rubbish.

Because each lid has the address of the house on it, the bin men would have to match up each one with the right house as they go along, adding considerably to their workload.

The council says the accusations are groundless and there will not be any problems.

A spokesperson said: @As long as you stack your paper rubbish carefully, without loose leafs on the top then there shouldn't be anything blowing away.

"You can also put it in plastic bags if you want as those are also recyclable. Anything blown away will be cleaned up by the council.

"Any rainwater isn't going to affect their recyclable use and I can't imagine it will make much difference to the fuel economy of the lorries."

In actual fact, fuel efficiency decreases by 0.75% for each 1% increase in weight, meaning doubling the load effectively reduces fuel efficiency by up to 80%. The subject of next week's missive.....

mkpdavies · 03-11-2005, 11:49 PM

Good work Mark, needless to say I totally agree, accept I don't think recycling the paper has any benefits anyway, indeed it does damage. That's a bit radical for now though I guess!

eublues · 09-11-2005, 09:08 PM

Round my way the council collects garden materials for 'recycling', and provides expensive wheelie bins for the purpose (lots of plastic involved). The environmental cost of the fleet of wagons used to go round to every house collecting some grass cuttings here and some twigs there doesn't bear thinking about. I think this nonsense started at the time the UK government decided that EU legislation outlawed compost heaps.

At one time not so long ago there was an informal, low-energy, high efficiency recycling network thoughout the country - the rag and bone man. Nothing was wasted if it made any economic sense to reclaim it - and it was totally bureaucracy free. In that golden age we even had second-hand shops!

SGK · 09-11-2005, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

Good work Mark, needless to say I totally agree, accept I don't think recycling the paper has any benefits anyway, indeed it does damage. That's a bit radical for now though I guess!

You made some good arguments for this, but made a couple of unsubstantiated claims. I hunted the internet for some facts and found very, very few. Almost all websites were biased one way or the, mostly pro-recycling, almost all claiming to debunk the myths, but did it by saying 'it's not true'. It's a pity, because it's an interesting subject.

Oh, and you've filled me with doubt every time I add to my paper stack. Thanks for that :x

SGK · 09-11-2005, 10:37 PM

eublues, is that true? Are compost heaps illegal in the UK? How can they enforce it, if it is?

mkpdavies · 10-11-2005, 07:27 AM

I look at every situation now with suspicous eyes. Sometimes I can't get hard, accurate stats to back my theories up, but I think about things and then try to apply some common sense.

Honestly, I find it hard not to scream in frustration most days with the garbage we are fed. My wife thinks I'm turning INTO phpbb_Victor Meldrew and I struggle not to become like that.

Sorry I have made you doubt what you do, but I think that's a good thing. If you can't convince yourself in your heart something is right, then you have to ask is it really worth doing.

On the Paper side of things, until someone can hit me with some good argument, I'm no longer wasting my time helping dom more damage than good. I reuse paper at home (shreded documents make fairly good cat litter), but I'll be damned if I will act like all the other sheep anymore.

I'm not a right wing nutjob who thinks he should be abled to do what he wants, without a care in the world. I buy free range meat only, I'll recyle Aluminium until the cows come home, but this world is screwed up when it comes to saving itself.

SGK · 10-11-2005, 11:47 AM

I'm only being light hearted with the doubt thing. It's good to have to think, that's why I visit this site.
One website I found showed that Germany collects more waste paper but the UK makes more use of the paper it collects. I suspect this is because the majority of schemes in the UK concentrate on newspaper collection whereas in Germany all paper is collected. I read some local authority sites which asked for this to be separated out.
I think that this is important to the debate, because it suggests that certain paper and certain processes are more valid than others. No one seems to be saying which, though.
Germany is on the surface further along this road than the UK and I was very impressed when I first moved here, though Munich seems better than Hamburg. Since living here, however, I have heard certain things that make me wonder.
One of them is that, despite household separation, much of the collected waste is thrown together and then sorted by hand at the recycling centres. The other is that a large percentage of the separated waste is not recycled but instead driven straight to the incinerators, because there is no call for the recycled materials.
Whether these are myths or true I don't know, but it makes you think.
I recycle all paper. I used to recycle compostable waste but the apartment area has removed the compost bin because we got mice (or rats). This is frustrating because I know that you can have a compost waste bin that is collected by the council. This is one waste that I can't see being harmful to separate out.
I recycle all glass, which I understand is the most recyclable product we use, and many bottles in Germany are deposit which go in a nifty machine at the supermarket.
I also separate what they call 'Grüne Punkt', Green Point, which oddly is collected in Yellow bins :roll: and is all packaging which has a little round recycling symbol on it (you may have seen it) which is essentially everything.
This includes plastics and metals. Metals are clearly recyclable, but I've no idea how the plastic recycling works and whether it's worth it, but of all the packaging, surely this is the one that needs to be recyclable.
I don't recycle my own urine, by the way. I leave the state to do that.

Hartlepool · 10-11-2005, 12:04 PM

In my area the recycling rules for glass and cans require them to be washed clean and without any lids or caps on. I have this thing about water being wasted and have had many a discussion about washing recycle items AFTER the normal dishwashing water has been dumped down the drain. The running of the tap just to wash out one tin of anything could use up as much water as the houses total recycling benefit to the environment.This is going on big time all the time. The waste of water in recycling is phenominal and it costs us, the recycler, and not the Council or its Contractor.

mkpdavies · 10-11-2005, 12:18 PM

Same in Woking. They ask all bottles and cans be washed, before putting in recycle bins.

Half this stuff is just land filled anyway.

The rest takes so much effort to get to an end product, that it isn't worth it.

Seriously it's nuts.

brian lee · 12-11-2005, 12:04 AM

I don't know the detail, but local authorities have a league table for recycling. The more tons that are collected the better the council looks, presumably to Prescott's Office. If paper gets wet it adds to the weight. Good sense doesn't seem to matter.

Those who dreamed up the bottle scheme must have forgotten that using tapwater to wash bottles will not help Prescott's dream to build more houses when there is insufficient water.

03-11-2005, 11:49 PM	#2 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 31,182 Party: Libertarian Party	Good work Mark, needless to say I totally agree, accept I don't think recycling the paper has any benefits anyway, indeed it does damage. That's a bit radical for now though I guess! __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

10-11-2005, 07:27 AM	#6 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 31,182 Party: Libertarian Party	I look at every situation now with suspicous eyes. Sometimes I can't get hard, accurate stats to back my theories up, but I think about things and then try to apply some common sense. Honestly, I find it hard not to scream in frustration most days with the garbage we are fed. My wife thinks I'm turning INTO phpbb_Victor Meldrew and I struggle not to become like that. Sorry I have made you doubt what you do, but I think that's a good thing. If you can't convince yourself in your heart something is right, then you have to ask is it really worth doing. On the Paper side of things, until someone can hit me with some good argument, I'm no longer wasting my time helping dom more damage than good. I reuse paper at home (shreded documents make fairly good cat litter), but I'll be damned if I will act like all the other sheep anymore. I'm not a right wing nutjob who thinks he should be abled to do what he wants, without a care in the world. I buy free range meat only, I'll recyle Aluminium until the cows come home, but this world is screwed up when it comes to saving itself. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

10-11-2005, 12:18 PM	#9 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 31,182 Party: Libertarian Party	Same in Woking. They ask all bottles and cans be washed, before putting in recycle bins. Half this stuff is just land filled anyway. The rest takes so much effort to get to an end product, that it isn't worth it. Seriously it's nuts. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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09-11-2005, 09:08 PM	#3 (permalink)
eublues Uber Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,129	Round my way the council collects garden materials for 'recycling', and provides expensive wheelie bins for the purpose (lots of plastic involved). The environmental cost of the fleet of wagons used to go round to every house collecting some grass cuttings here and some twigs there doesn't bear thinking about. I think this nonsense started at the time the UK government decided that EU legislation outlawed compost heaps. At one time not so long ago there was an informal, low-energy, high efficiency recycling network thoughout the country - the rag and bone man. Nothing was wasted if it made any economic sense to reclaim it - and it was totally bureaucracy free. In that golden age we even had second-hand shops!

09-11-2005, 10:37 PM	#5 (permalink)
SGK Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,237	eublues, is that true? Are compost heaps illegal in the UK? How can they enforce it, if it is?

10-11-2005, 11:47 AM	#7 (permalink)
SGK Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,237	I'm only being light hearted with the doubt thing. It's good to have to think, that's why I visit this site. One website I found showed that Germany collects more waste paper but the UK makes more use of the paper it collects. I suspect this is because the majority of schemes in the UK concentrate on newspaper collection whereas in Germany all paper is collected. I read some local authority sites which asked for this to be separated out. I think that this is important to the debate, because it suggests that certain paper and certain processes are more valid than others. No one seems to be saying which, though. Germany is on the surface further along this road than the UK and I was very impressed when I first moved here, though Munich seems better than Hamburg. Since living here, however, I have heard certain things that make me wonder. One of them is that, despite household separation, much of the collected waste is thrown together and then sorted by hand at the recycling centres. The other is that a large percentage of the separated waste is not recycled but instead driven straight to the incinerators, because there is no call for the recycled materials. Whether these are myths or true I don't know, but it makes you think. I recycle all paper. I used to recycle compostable waste but the apartment area has removed the compost bin because we got mice (or rats). This is frustrating because I know that you can have a compost waste bin that is collected by the council. This is one waste that I can't see being harmful to separate out. I recycle all glass, which I understand is the most recyclable product we use, and many bottles in Germany are deposit which go in a nifty machine at the supermarket. I also separate what they call 'Grüne Punkt', Green Point, which oddly is collected in Yellow bins :roll: and is all packaging which has a little round recycling symbol on it (you may have seen it) which is essentially everything. This includes plastics and metals. Metals are clearly recyclable, but I've no idea how the plastic recycling works and whether it's worth it, but of all the packaging, surely this is the one that needs to be recyclable. I don't recycle my own urine, by the way. I leave the state to do that.

10-11-2005, 12:04 PM	#8 (permalink)
Hartlepool Uber Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: North East England Posts: 6,817 Party: Popular Democrats	In my area the recycling rules for glass and cans require them to be washed clean and without any lids or caps on. I have this thing about water being wasted and have had many a discussion about washing recycle items AFTER the normal dishwashing water has been dumped down the drain. The running of the tap just to wash out one tin of anything could use up as much water as the houses total recycling benefit to the environment.This is going on big time all the time. The waste of water in recycling is phenominal and it costs us, the recycler, and not the Council or its Contractor.

12-11-2005, 12:04 AM	#10 (permalink)
brian lee Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: South Essex Posts: 613	I don't know the detail, but local authorities have a league table for recycling. The more tons that are collected the better the council looks, presumably to Prescott's Office. If paper gets wet it adds to the weight. Good sense doesn't seem to matter. Those who dreamed up the bottle scheme must have forgotten that using tapwater to wash bottles will not help Prescott's dream to build more houses when there is insufficient water.