The 'far right' smears are still being used

Nigel Garage · 27-10-2005, 01:07 PM

Quote:

New research has found that support for the British National Party is higher in London than any other part of the UK, with 23 per cent of Londoners saying they would consider voting for the far-Right party.
Speaking at the launch of The Far Right in London: a challenge for local democracy?, Professor Helen Margetts of Oxford University, a member of the team that carried out the research for the Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust, said: 'The far Right has entered the mainstream of London politics.'

In mayoral, assembly and European elections in London, the British National Party (BNP) and the UK Independence Party (UKIP) vote doubled between 2000 and 2004 and, in 2004, the BNP narrowly missed gaining a seat in the London Assembly, losing by only a handful of votes. In the same year, 45 per cent of Londoners said in a survey that they would consider voting for either the BNP or UKIP.

Another of the researchers, Professor Peter John of Manchester University, pointed out at the launch that, in London, unlike other parts of the UK, the wards where the BNP did well were also the wards where UKIP did well, suggesting that both parties were appealing to the same mindset. 'With the decline of UKIP', he asked, 'will these votes now switch to the BNP?' One in five UKIP voters put the BNP as their second choice in the London mayoral elections in 2004.

The BNP, which currently has twenty-one councillors in England, is planning to stand six hundred candidates in local elections in May 2006. Forty seats, all of which are vulnerable to a swing of less than 5 per cent, are to be specifically targeted. Barking, Dagenham and Epping are to be the key target areas in London. In the May 2005 general election, the BNP gained 16.9 per cent of the vote in the Barking constituency and 9.3 per cent in Dagenham.

The centrepiece of the BNP campaign in 2006 is likely to be the London bombings. The party has already claimed that they would not have happened if its warnings on immigration had been heeded. A BNP leaflet entitled 'If only they had listened to the BNP' was put out soon after the London bombings as part of a local election campaign in the Goresbrook ward of Barking and Dagenham.

Growing support
Nick Lowles, of the anti-fascist organisation Searchlight, predicted at the launch of the research that support for the BNP in London would grow in the future as the economy weakens, the Conservative Party takes a more moderate turn, UKIP continues its demise and the BNP becomes more strategically sophisticated.

Whereas research among voters in northern towns found that there, until recently, the BNP attracted votes from young people and from some former Conservative Party supporters in wealthier wards around Burnley and Calderdale, in London, it remained older, working-class voters who had turned to the far Right, after becoming dissatisfied with the Labour Party.

The focus group research carried out as part of the Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust study suggests that the main issue which is driving rising support for the BNP in outer east London is immigration, although this issue has acted as a symbol for a host of other dissatisfactions, such as poor housing and education. There is, in addition, a deep-seated disillusionment with mainstream political parties, particularly Labour, which is seen as no longer representing the interests of local, working-class Whites.

http://www.irr.org.uk/2005/october/ak000035.html

brian lee · 27-10-2005, 01:44 PM

Thanks to Nigel Garage for his posting.

It looks like UKIP will have to have a go at the Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust as well as Oxford and Cambridge Universities. Only people who are lazy or of limited intelligence refer to Right and Left in politics. This means that journalists, who appear to be naturally lazy, use Right and Left as a way of not having to justify their particular bias. If University Professors are using Right and Left they are not fit to hold their jobs.

I often wonder how it came about that to want self determination is seen as Far Right.

Aardvark · 27-10-2005, 03:49 PM

Most people use right and left in politics. They are neither lazy nor unintelligent. What they mean by left and right may, however, be something else. What people see as acceptable in other people's views might also be different.

I somehow don't see Oxford University, Cambridge University or the Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust caring about us 'having a go at them'. The universities are bigger and better funded than we are, whilst the Rowntree Trust has been up to this sort of thing since I was a young man. They are, being lazy, a 'left-wing' think tank. Their reasons for doing the research were not so that BNP or UKIP could get a warm feeling about the way that the electorate is thinking, but to act as a warning to their socialist/liberal colleagues about which way the wind is blowing so that they can do something about it. The 'doing something' will not include changing their stance on the immigration/poverty issues, but will more likely include calls for bans on BNP candidates and providing funding to 'educate' the troubled voters of London that everything is okay.

The interesting thing is that the implication of 40%+ votes against continued immigration means that in some areas virtually every native born elector has considered voting for an anti-immigration party! I see the Tiber foaming with blood.

Cyburn · 27-10-2005, 04:00 PM

Lets face it our PC media has put anyone who criticises immigration a far-right fanatic.

Maybe the only way to stop the BNP, is to kinda be the BNP.

If our government keeps acting PC, then the BNP will get in.

smooveOp · 27-10-2005, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyburn

Maybe the only way to stop the BNP, is to kinda be the BNP.

...right

- and, if UKIP followed that line, what differences would remain between the two parties?

mkpdavies · 27-10-2005, 04:35 PM

Cyburn.

You make that suggestion again and you are banned.

brian lee · 27-10-2005, 05:15 PM

I agree that many people use the terminology of wings, but that is presumably because they see it in the media.

Political journalists and professors should know better, because the descriptions mean different things to different people. Most of us are opinionated, and I am sure from 10 subjects, 5 of our views could be considered right and 5, left. That doesn't make us centre.

White knight · 27-10-2005, 08:18 PM

Cyburn wrote:
Maybe the only way to stop the BNP, is to kinda be the BNP

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

Cyburn.

You make that suggestion again and you are banned.

And your penance is 5 Hail Mary's and One Our Father before Bedtime!

Aardvark · 28-10-2005, 09:01 AM

Brian,

Agree about the fact that different policies might be classed as right or left and, as you rightly say, 50% of each doesn't make someone centre. This is indeed where the 'experts' have problems. You can be in favour of re-nationalising the railways, improving social housing and stopping the privatisation of the NHS, but oppose immigration and you're classed by some as 'far right'. This is why the report acknowledges, almost with amazement, that BNP is taking support from Labour.

In fact that is the dichotomy for the anti-'right' wing groups. BNP is in the main supported by disaffected Labour (power base in the cities), whilst UKIP is the home, to a greater extent, of disaffected Tories and eurosceptic LibDems (powerbase West Country and rural England with some bits of London). The quandary they have is how to fight both?

claire stone · 28-10-2005, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyburn

Lets face it our PC media has put anyone who criticises immigration a far-right fanatic.

Maybe the only way to stop the BNP, is to kinda be the BNP.

If our government keeps acting PC, then the BNP will get in.

As you say, if you criticise the powers-that -be, you must be some kind of "far-right" fanatic. But this is a bit of a monefield thanks to our free and fair press.

27-10-2005, 01:44 PM	#2 (permalink)
brian lee Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: South Essex Posts: 613	Far Right Thanks to Nigel Garage for his posting. It looks like UKIP will have to have a go at the Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust as well as Oxford and Cambridge Universities. Only people who are lazy or of limited intelligence refer to Right and Left in politics. This means that journalists, who appear to be naturally lazy, use Right and Left as a way of not having to justify their particular bias. If University Professors are using Right and Left they are not fit to hold their jobs. I often wonder how it came about that to want self determination is seen as Far Right.

27-10-2005, 04:35 PM	#6 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 31,182 Party: Libertarian Party	Cyburn. You make that suggestion again and you are banned. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

27-10-2005, 05:15 PM	#7 (permalink)
brian lee Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: South Essex Posts: 613	Right/Left I agree that many people use the terminology of wings, but that is presumably because they see it in the media. Political journalists and professors should know better, because the descriptions mean different things to different people. Most of us are opinionated, and I am sure from 10 subjects, 5 of our views could be considered right and 5, left. That doesn't make us centre.

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27-10-2005, 03:49 PM	#3 (permalink)
Aardvark Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oxonia Posts: 3,987	Most people use right and left in politics. They are neither lazy nor unintelligent. What they mean by left and right may, however, be something else. What people see as acceptable in other people's views might also be different. I somehow don't see Oxford University, Cambridge University or the Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust caring about us 'having a go at them'. The universities are bigger and better funded than we are, whilst the Rowntree Trust has been up to this sort of thing since I was a young man. They are, being lazy, a 'left-wing' think tank. Their reasons for doing the research were not so that BNP or UKIP could get a warm feeling about the way that the electorate is thinking, but to act as a warning to their socialist/liberal colleagues about which way the wind is blowing so that they can do something about it. The 'doing something' will not include changing their stance on the immigration/poverty issues, but will more likely include calls for bans on BNP candidates and providing funding to 'educate' the troubled voters of London that everything is okay. The interesting thing is that the implication of 40%+ votes against continued immigration means that in some areas virtually every native born elector has considered voting for an anti-immigration party! I see the Tiber foaming with blood.

27-10-2005, 04:00 PM	#4 (permalink)
Cyburn Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Kilburn, London Posts: 523	Lets face it our PC media has put anyone who criticises immigration a far-right fanatic. Maybe the only way to stop the BNP, is to kinda be the BNP. If our government keeps acting PC, then the BNP will get in.

28-10-2005, 09:01 AM	#9 (permalink)
Aardvark Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oxonia Posts: 3,987	Brian, Agree about the fact that different policies might be classed as right or left and, as you rightly say, 50% of each doesn't make someone centre. This is indeed where the 'experts' have problems. You can be in favour of re-nationalising the railways, improving social housing and stopping the privatisation of the NHS, but oppose immigration and you're classed by some as 'far right'. This is why the report acknowledges, almost with amazement, that BNP is taking support from Labour. In fact that is the dichotomy for the anti-'right' wing groups. BNP is in the main supported by disaffected Labour (power base in the cities), whilst UKIP is the home, to a greater extent, of disaffected Tories and eurosceptic LibDems (powerbase West Country and rural England with some bits of London). The quandary they have is how to fight both?