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Old 09-10-2005, 01:46 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I can understand where Nigel was coming from on this. He is protecting the UKIP name from being used by other groups
Anthony is absolutely right about this - we could have set a precedent.

What is annoying is that although we saw reason and agreed - Nigel had a pop at us from stage - that was wholly wrong!
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Old 09-10-2005, 02:09 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Maybe he thinks the Members Association won't really represent UKIP's true philophosy, subsequently will cause friction within the party and he's determined to stop that happening.
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Old 09-10-2005, 02:12 PM   #13 (permalink)
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[quote="Biscuitman"]
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I can understand where Nigel was coming from on this. He is protecting the UKIP name from being used by other groups
Who care what Nigel says he is not God he is just an MEP :evil:
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Old 09-10-2005, 02:16 PM   #14 (permalink)
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[quote="B.A.Ware"]
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Originally Posted by Biscuitman
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I can understand where Nigel was coming from on this. He is protecting the UKIP name from being used by other groups
Who care what Nigel says he is not God he is just an MEP :evil:
This is the same words used by the Veritas Members Association about RKS, look how much trouble that caused so it is understandable the hiearchy in UKIP are concerned.
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Old 09-10-2005, 04:32 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Anthony Butcher
Nigel did apparently apologise for this to David Lamb afterwards, but he had already damaged the group unfairly.
He didn't apologise to Conference.

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However, I hope that our civil response has demonstrated our sincerity, rather than making us look like trouble makers.
Sorry, but I'm afraid it makes you look like wimps who can be cowed INTO phpbb_submission like the rest of us.

Please don't fall INTO phpbb_the "going native" trap. Being conciliatory just doesn't work against bullies and arrogant control freaks. As Petrina has found out to her cost.
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Old 09-10-2005, 07:41 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Anthony Butcher
We could have had a big row about it, walked around handing leaflets to as many people as possible and then been evicted from the conference. I am not sure how that would help to improve the party in the long run.
It would have shown your no push-overs!
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Originally Posted by AB
The MA isn't about causing trouble, it is about improving the party. We got a lot of support from senior UKIPpers, and I don't think that Mark and Nigel will have done themselves any favours by taking this stance. It is clearly choking positive ideas and projects from the party.
They were not interested in favours but in ataining there aims,this they did!
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However, I hope that our civil response has demonstrated our sincerity, rather than making us look like trouble makers. I was really proud of our bunch. Having been so badly treated, they took it with a smile, and we all went of for a long lunch/drink later.
You failed to do what you set out to do
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In the future, if we handle things better, we may not see this kind of resistance. We have learned a hard lesson today about how to go about making these changes.
unless that means a change of attitude,you will have learned nothing!
Sorry if this sounds harsh,but thems the facts!
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Old 09-10-2005, 08:09 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Percentage
It would have shown your no push-overs!
The problem is that Nigel had a fair point. No point fighting when you aren't entirely in the right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Percentage
You failed to do what you set out to do
On this particular occasion, yes. However, it has taught us two valuable lessons. The first is that we have to go through the NEC and get approval for projects.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Percentage
unless that means a change of attitude,you will have learned nothing!
Sorry if this sounds harsh,but thems the facts!
It does mean a change of attitude, yes, to some extent.
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Old 10-10-2005, 12:15 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Well said Paul.
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Old 10-10-2005, 12:25 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Percentage
It would have shown your no push-overs!
Anthony Butcher wrote
Quote:
The problem is that Nigel had a fair point. No point fighting when you aren't entirely in the right.
No Nigel didn’t, Nigel had HIS point, yes there is a point in fighting because you was in the right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Percentage
You failed to do what you set out to do
Anthony Butcher wrote
Quote:
On this particular occasion, yes. However, it has taught us two valuable lessons. The first is that we have to go through the NEC and get approval for projects.
No it hasn't it has taught the leadership if you apply pressure they will break
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Old 10-10-2005, 07:07 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony Butcher
Quote:
Originally Posted by Percentage
It would have shown your no push-overs!
The problem is that Nigel had a fair point. No point fighting when you aren't entirely in the right.
Yes,but as Brenden has pointed out it was A point,there is ALLWAYS more than one point of view in a democracy,from where i'm looking at it across the water Nigel has shown total disregard,disrespect & utter contempt for your/our point of view,where i come from you formulate your attitude/tac-tics in accordance with whats being reciprocated

There is a thin line between showing genuine warranted concern for the point of view of someone in a position of authority & sycophancy

A leaders first responsibility is to those that look to him for leadership,not to listen to the soundtrack of a XTC record of the seventies

The fact is the MA will ALLWAYS be seen by some as a trouble-stiring outfit,especialy by those who seek there own agenda (there are many,let us not be fooled),an attitude of apeasement will only ultimatley prove fruitless over time

IMO the fight should be fought on ideological grounds,in a no-nonsence,straight forward,honest aproach coming from a position of strength & principle,in this way the cause would be less of a sitting target!
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