Flat Tax

progcon.org · 27-09-2005, 12:12 PM

It is interesting to see how misguided Gordon Brown's attack on the flat tax was

Not only would the millionaire actually pay almost double the rate of the nurse, but the longest running flat tax system was introduced over 50 years ago by a British colony at a time when we had not a neo-con government, but, um, a Labour one.

http://www.progcon.org/blog/permalink.asp?id=35

spaman · 28-09-2005, 02:15 PM

I will be very interested in what UKIP come up with as far as taxation is concerned......... the overlying principles have to be FAIRNESS, SIMPLICITY and VISIBILITY.

The tax system in this country is well overdue for a complete overhaul..... and it needs to be structured in such a way that it can be shown, that tax is a responsibility and should not be used as a punishment.

That said, there are far too many taxes....... and there really has to be some innovative ways of simplifying the process and number of people collecting it, not to say that a number of taxes should be abolished, streamlined or even merged.

It's not enough to say we will have flat rates of tax......... we have to grab this tax beast by the throat and create a decent honest process... on the other hand, I supose, we shouldn't bite off more than we can swallow...

It is a complex and emotive issue, but a potential vote winner if done properly...... and we get our sums right - Ha.......unlike our friend Brown the big hole.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 8)

Lawrie Boxall · 04-10-2005, 08:37 AM

My view of this is that the kind of complexity we now have in the UK is not helpful to people or business and it is not efficient, however a multi-layered tax system is I think a hall mark of a developed society.

I predict that the flat tax regimes installed by the developing economies will become increasingly complex over time to mirror those we now see in the western economies.

progcon.org · 04-10-2005, 09:46 AM

We should keep in mind that we have half a century of back-data and experience to test from Hong Kong's implementation of flat tax. Tax returns today are still a one page 12-15 line affair, so for them, it definitely has not evolved INTO phpbb_a more complex system.

mkpdavies · 04-10-2005, 11:45 AM

The only reason they do evolve INTO phpbb_more complex beasts, is goverments tinker and mess with them over time, to sneak through their agenda's. Eventualy you arrive at the mess we see today.

I dare say other governments in the future would tinker again, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be resetting it back to a simple model now, as if we don't it's all going to come down in a heap anyway at some point.

progcon.org · 04-10-2005, 11:57 AM

I agree.

It will at least be very transparent at manifesto time if any party proposes adding new tax rates or refuses to rule it out.

There will be no more tax rise rhetoric along the lines of "tax in income" (NI) rather than "income tax" sleights of hands.

With a flat tax, there are just three questions:

1. Will you raise/lower the tax free amount?
2. Will you raise/lower the flat tax rate?
3. Will you introduce any new taxes?

Biscuitman · 04-10-2005, 12:53 PM

Read an article at the weekend, I think in one of our trade papers, the chancellor has doubled his take from income tax and national insurance since 1997 - good job he said he wouldn't raise taxes.

Lawrie Boxall · 04-10-2005, 01:52 PM

Sorry - I am not convinced. Hong Kong, admirable in many ways and now part of communist China, is hardly a relevant example. And the German electorate, more similar to our own I think, were not very keen. I thought the idea was to win votes not frighten people off.

mkpdavies · 04-10-2005, 01:56 PM

Everyone I speak too believes we need a much more simple tax system and are open to the Flat Tax idea.

Lower earners are the ones who need to be sold the idea the most.

Tom Collier · 04-10-2005, 02:00 PM

Simpler, yes, but two rates instead of three is a start. I am not sure II want to progress further. i think the main thing is that people want more direct rather than indirect taxation and that has been missed by the main parties.

04-10-2005, 11:45 AM	#35 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 31,182 Party: Libertarian Party	The only reason they do evolve INTO phpbb_more complex beasts, is goverments tinker and mess with them over time, to sneak through their agenda's. Eventualy you arrive at the mess we see today. I dare say other governments in the future would tinker again, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be resetting it back to a simple model now, as if we don't it's all going to come down in a heap anyway at some point. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

04-10-2005, 12:53 PM	#37 (permalink)
Biscuitman Uber Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Reading Posts: 3,486	Read an article at the weekend, I think in one of our trade papers, the chancellor has doubled his take from income tax and national insurance since 1997 - good job he said he wouldn't raise taxes. __________________ IF THE EU WAS THE ANSWER, IT MUST HAVE BEEN A STUPID QUESTION!

04-10-2005, 01:56 PM	#39 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 31,182 Party: Libertarian Party	Everyone I speak too believes we need a much more simple tax system and are open to the Flat Tax idea. Lower earners are the ones who need to be sold the idea the most. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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27-09-2005, 12:12 PM	#31 (permalink)
progcon.org Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 934	It is interesting to see how misguided Gordon Brown's attack on the flat tax was Not only would the millionaire actually pay almost double the rate of the nurse, but the longest running flat tax system was introduced over 50 years ago by a British colony at a time when we had not a neo-con government, but, um, a Labour one. http://www.progcon.org/blog/permalink.asp?id=35

28-09-2005, 02:15 PM	#32 (permalink)
spaman Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 894	I will be very interested in what UKIP come up with as far as taxation is concerned......... the overlying principles have to be FAIRNESS, SIMPLICITY and VISIBILITY. The tax system in this country is well overdue for a complete overhaul..... and it needs to be structured in such a way that it can be shown, that tax is a responsibility and should not be used as a punishment. That said, there are far too many taxes....... and there really has to be some innovative ways of simplifying the process and number of people collecting it, not to say that a number of taxes should be abolished, streamlined or even merged. It's not enough to say we will have flat rates of tax......... we have to grab this tax beast by the throat and create a decent honest process... on the other hand, I supose, we shouldn't bite off more than we can swallow... It is a complex and emotive issue, but a potential vote winner if done properly...... and we get our sums right - Ha.......unlike our friend Brown the big hole. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 8)

04-10-2005, 08:37 AM	#33 (permalink)
Lawrie Boxall Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Sandhurst Posts: 1,015	My view of this is that the kind of complexity we now have in the UK is not helpful to people or business and it is not efficient, however a multi-layered tax system is I think a hall mark of a developed society. I predict that the flat tax regimes installed by the developing economies will become increasingly complex over time to mirror those we now see in the western economies.

04-10-2005, 09:46 AM	#34 (permalink)
progcon.org Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 934	We should keep in mind that we have half a century of back-data and experience to test from Hong Kong's implementation of flat tax. Tax returns today are still a one page 12-15 line affair, so for them, it definitely has not evolved INTO phpbb_a more complex system.

04-10-2005, 11:57 AM	#36 (permalink)
progcon.org Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 934	I agree. It will at least be very transparent at manifesto time if any party proposes adding new tax rates or refuses to rule it out. There will be no more tax rise rhetoric along the lines of "tax in income" (NI) rather than "income tax" sleights of hands. With a flat tax, there are just three questions: 1. Will you raise/lower the tax free amount? 2. Will you raise/lower the flat tax rate? 3. Will you introduce any new taxes?

04-10-2005, 01:52 PM	#38 (permalink)
Lawrie Boxall Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Sandhurst Posts: 1,015	Sorry - I am not convinced. Hong Kong, admirable in many ways and now part of communist China, is hardly a relevant example. And the German electorate, more similar to our own I think, were not very keen. I thought the idea was to win votes not frighten people off.

04-10-2005, 02:00 PM	#40 (permalink)
Tom Collier Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Bournemouth Posts: 359	Simpler, yes, but two rates instead of three is a start. I am not sure II want to progress further. i think the main thing is that people want more direct rather than indirect taxation and that has been missed by the main parties.