Pressure Group or Political Party?

Richard · 11-08-2005, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

That's the thing Richard.

Some people actualy started joining because of other reasons. The Libertarian, anti-police state position of UKIP was a big draw to some of us.

The EU is the single most important issue in my mind as it does effect everything and makes power over the people even more remote, out of touch and unaccountable.

However, a lot of us now believe that saying we are anti EU isn't enough. It's like having a big fast car, but with no wheels, no fuel, no steering wheel, indeed just a shell. Winning the race in a shell is highly unlikely.

That's very true Matt. I joined because of my belief in democracy. If the EU was democratic and not authoritarian then I may be willing to support it but it's not and never will be. At the same time I believe in a large amount of personal freedom, which obviously our leadership in Westminster and Brussels do not. I support UKIP because I think it fits well INTO phpbb_my beliefs. The party is not perfect and can't accomodate everyone but it's polices of democracy, freedom, non-authoritarian, equality and personal resposibility appeals to most people.

Alex McKee · 11-08-2005, 11:04 AM

See Matt, he's another Libertarian-edged blade

Richard · 11-08-2005, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

See Matt, he's another Libertarian-edged blade

Very sharp me, ouch.... I need a plaster

WindupMerchant · 11-08-2005, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

See Matt, he's another Libertarian-edged blade

Shame the Libertarians blades are becoming blunt, but just on the edges of the true sabre

Richard · 11-08-2005, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UKIP party member

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

See Matt, he's another Libertarian-edged blade

Shame the Libertarians blades are becoming blunt, but just on the edges of the true sabre

Can always be resharpened!

WindupMerchant · 11-08-2005, 11:47 AM

No point :wink:

Alex McKee · 11-08-2005, 01:13 PM

Only being bluntened by cutting away all the ****!

WindupMerchant · 11-08-2005, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

Only being bluntened by cutting away all the c***!

Your doing a good job, there are less Libertarians

M F-M · 12-08-2005, 06:56 PM

UKIP's views mirror my own on all fields. It has done well to become a mainstream party, our weakness the system of election. We are the fourth largest party in 2005 we polled 0 Mps even though millions voted for UKIP. Personally I see the current system as a potrait of the goverments weakness. When the intercity project was first started the French goverment completed their side of the link in months a year on Britain still hadn't finished 1/2 of the project . Each part of Britain is divided INTO phpbb_small councils dividing the power of the people!

VOTE ON THE ISSUE! General forums

Lawrie Boxall · 16-08-2005, 08:38 AM

Just to clarify my position on fighting local elections. I believe they are important of course - after all UKIP should be a political party not a pressure group, and political parties exist to fight elections and achieve government, that is their purpose.

After the debacle in 2001 we were saying exactly the same things that are being repeated now: that there will not be national success until we break through in local government. Indeed in my own branch which included two parliamentary constituencies, we fought every local election we could in the 3 years to 2004, culminating in us fielding 24 UKIP candiddates in Wokingham District Council elections of that year. We estimated we delivered around 60,000 leaflets of one sort or another during that campaign. We didn't get anyone elected although we had some good results.

In 2003 I came very close to being elected to both my local Town Council and did quite well in the elections for Bracknell Forest Borough Council.

But the point I was making earlier is that the leadership also has to do its job if the party is to have any real success or it is betraying the trust of the hard working members - and really we are talking about success at the next general election. Winning seats at the local level is important because amongst other things it will help greatly towards that goal.

My complaint against the UKIP leadership is that in my opinion it has done virtually nothing in 10 years to raise the national profile of the party and indeed at the last election they seemed to be planning for damage limitation from about 1 year out. Despite this they remain apparently satisfied with the job they are doing and refuse to acknowledge their serial failures - hence my comment about vacating the pot.

View Poll Results: What should UKIP be?
1. A pressure group	2	5.71%
2. A pressure party	2	5.71%
3. A full political party	31	88.57%
Voters: 35. You may not vote on this poll

12-08-2005, 06:56 PM	#39 (permalink)
M F-M Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 14	CHANGE THE VOTING SYSTEM? UKIP's views mirror my own on all fields. It has done well to become a mainstream party, our weakness the system of election. We are the fourth largest party in 2005 we polled 0 Mps even though millions voted for UKIP. Personally I see the current system as a potrait of the goverments weakness. When the intercity project was first started the French goverment completed their side of the link in months a year on Britain still hadn't finished 1/2 of the project . Each part of Britain is divided INTO phpbb_small councils dividing the power of the people! VOTE ON THE ISSUE! General forums

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11-08-2005, 11:04 AM	#32 (permalink)
Alex McKee Moderator Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Gloucester Posts: 6,666	See Matt, he's another Libertarian-edged blade

11-08-2005, 11:47 AM	#36 (permalink)
WindupMerchant Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,508	No point :wink:

11-08-2005, 01:13 PM	#37 (permalink)
Alex McKee Moderator Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Gloucester Posts: 6,666	Only being bluntened by cutting away all the ****!

16-08-2005, 08:38 AM	#40 (permalink)
Lawrie Boxall Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Sandhurst Posts: 1,015	Just to clarify my position on fighting local elections. I believe they are important of course - after all UKIP should be a political party not a pressure group, and political parties exist to fight elections and achieve government, that is their purpose. After the debacle in 2001 we were saying exactly the same things that are being repeated now: that there will not be national success until we break through in local government. Indeed in my own branch which included two parliamentary constituencies, we fought every local election we could in the 3 years to 2004, culminating in us fielding 24 UKIP candiddates in Wokingham District Council elections of that year. We estimated we delivered around 60,000 leaflets of one sort or another during that campaign. We didn't get anyone elected although we had some good results. In 2003 I came very close to being elected to both my local Town Council and did quite well in the elections for Bracknell Forest Borough Council. But the point I was making earlier is that the leadership also has to do its job if the party is to have any real success or it is betraying the trust of the hard working members - and really we are talking about success at the next general election. Winning seats at the local level is important because amongst other things it will help greatly towards that goal. My complaint against the UKIP leadership is that in my opinion it has done virtually nothing in 10 years to raise the national profile of the party and indeed at the last election they seemed to be planning for damage limitation from about 1 year out. Despite this they remain apparently satisfied with the job they are doing and refuse to acknowledge their serial failures - hence my comment about vacating the pot.