Pressure Group or Political Party?

Lawrie Boxall · 09-08-2005, 08:31 AM

It has to come from the top imo. Only the UKIP leadership has it in their power to create the right environment to allow UKIP candidates to make a breakthrough. They must first acknowledge that all the important battles need to be won in the UK not in Brussels and then change the party's focus. Another pre-requisite is to address the broad issues of UK politics and concentrate the party's efforts but most importantly their own on UK campaigns.

That's why Gerrard Batten's statement last week was welcome even though it left something to be desired. That does not matter and UKIP spokesmen should not be afraid of making mistakes. Mistakes are to be avoided but some are inevitable and it is far more important to address the issues publicly than remain silent. And now is the time, years out from a general election, for the party to air its views and test them in public.

Of course UKIP members have to keep fighting local elections on local issues, but there will be endless defeats unless UKIP makes itself credible as a party of government.

If I was a UKIP member I would have to say to the party leaders, which includes the whole of the NEC and all the MEPs, either produce or get off the pot. They have been occupying the seat for far too long without much result.

steve allison · 09-08-2005, 02:02 PM

I have to disagree with you Lawrie about this one. Local elections are not about "the leadership" they are about local people, you and I, getting off our backsides and doing something.

The membership of UKIP seems to spend an awful lot of time complaining the Leadership are not doing anything! Why isn't UKIP more visible? Why don't the leadership do something?

Well "the leadership" are saying loud and clear to anyone who will listen that UKIP needs to stand candidates in local elections and that the campaigns need to start now. The National Leadership cannot run every single local election campaign, which is down to individual candidates and branches.

Rather than saying "why isn't the leadership doing something" we should be saying in our own areas UKIP is being made more visible by MY election campaign. The leadership have given the lead by encouraging people to stand, it is up to us, as the membership to get out there and do it.

Are you attending Council meetings and local neighbourhood forums? Go along, submit questions to local councillors, do you research first.....ask you local councillor something like "Since you were elected in 2XXX the level of graffiti in the ward has almost doubled, what have you done to address this", then what ever answer they give you can reply "Well, you've been our councillor for X years and don't seem to have achieved anything, maybe it's time for a change" The local papers will cover it if you tip them off......

The typical ward has 2,500 homes, every single one should have already had a personal letter from their candidate (or UKIP Ward Co-ordinator as they should be referred to until April 2006), and I mean personal, get a copy of the electoral register and mail merge a file, deliver them by hand and knock on doors as you do it:

Here is a quick Local Election Programme

September, introductory letter too all voters
Knock on doors
Attend local Events
Issue press releases
write letters to local papers

October, Knock on doors
Attend local Events
Issue press releases
write letters to local papers

November, newsletter too all homes
Knock on doors
Attend local Events
Issue press releases
write letters to local papers

December, personalised Christmas card to all voters
Knock on doors
Attend local Events
Issue press releases
write letters to local papers

January, Knock on doors
Attend local Events
Issue press releases
write letters to local papers

February, newsletter to all homes
Knock on doors
Attend local Events
Issue press releases
write letters to local papers

March, Knock on doors
Attend local Events
Issue press releases
write letters to local papers

April, Election Address to all homes
Knock on doors
Attend local Events
Issue press releases
write letters to local papers

April, personalised letter to all postal voters delivered by hand on day before ballot papers come out.
Knock on doors
Attend local Events
Issue press releases
write letters to local papers

Eve of poll , don't forget to vote leaflet.

Only the Election address, postal voter letter and eve of poll leaflet actually count towards your election expenses. The rest are before the controlled period starts and so can be discounted.

So don't complain about the "Leadership" doing nothing, just get out there and do it yourself.......

mkpdavies · 09-08-2005, 02:35 PM

There was me thinking the leadership were doing sod all!

Get out and fight elections, brilliant in it's simplicity.

Sadly, I think a lot of branches are now skint, since they wasted a lot of their funds on an election address, that was quite simply the worst one I have seen put out by any party, ever.

The fact that a lot of branches have lost the will to live and haven't been boosted in anyway by seeing any real initiatives on a national level, means the amount of door knocking won't quite be up to the other parties efforts.

Some branches are crying out for some real guidance on how to run a local campaign. Those that come here might have some ideas to go on, but what about the rest who don't?

Even the one simple tool of having a reasonable website could boost a lot of people, but then that would be spoon feeding them wouldn't it.

Of course the local branches should do all they can. There are probably good branches, great branches and a few crummy branches up and down the country too. The good branches are not the problem, the average and poor ones are and need all the help they can get.

UKIP needs to get credibility before it can start attracting enough members and funds to fight the kind of campaign you talk about. Until the basics are put right, such as the party regularly releasing policies and reaction to how this country is being raped, even if the website is the only way of getting it out; how can you expect any but the best branches to do anything?

Fighting gorilla warfare tactics where each little local unit does everything works to a point, but if you want real success you have to be more organised, polished and professional.

No more Dads army, more SAS please!

Richard · 09-08-2005, 03:52 PM

A Full Political Party

My reasons are quite simple, there are only two ways in which the UK will leave the EU. Either by the EU collapsing or the ballot box. Politicians are not scared of pressure groups, they pose little threat to them. They only take note if they will loose a seat or gain a seat.

UKIP may never be in government but politicains will take note of us if we are a threat. Joe Bloggs down the road is not interested in the 'EU'. They are interested in health, taxes, crime, police, energy, rubbish, graffiti, transport, pensions etc. The way UKIP sells it is how the EU interferes in these areas and our powerlessness to do anything about it.

People need to see us as a strong contender, which includes strong leadership. We need to build up local support in councils so people vote for us in a general election.

We can do it but we need the energy, enthusiasm, leadership, resourses etc. Time to do something about it methinks

BASILDON BOY · 09-08-2005, 05:25 PM

We need a local government policy unit.

While our MEPS are busy fighting the pen pushers and civil servants in the EU - we should be busy fighting those civil servants and pen pushers in the local town hall.

We need a unit offering 5 or 6 local government policy ideas and then help and guidence on campaigning to take the local town hall!

Has anybody asked where all our council tax money goes?

steve allison · 09-08-2005, 07:44 PM

Anyone looking for a good, crusading local website try

www.high-tax-hartlepool.co.uk

Only been running properly since 1st August

MarkR · 09-08-2005, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

a lot of branches have lost the will to live and haven't been boosted in anyway by seeing any real initiatives on a national level

Exactly how I feel. Not a fugging squeak about ID cards. A disgrace. Instead we have some toss about another bloody petition for a referendum that ain't going to happen and we are unlikely to win (in the current political climate) in any case.
Dunno why I bother.

Richard · 10-08-2005, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkR

Dunno why I bother.

I take it you bother because the same reason as the rest of us........

Get out of the EU.....

mkpdavies · 10-08-2005, 11:38 AM

That's the thing Richard.

Some people actualy started joining because of other reasons. The Libertarian, anti-police state position of UKIP was a big draw to some of us.

The EU is the single most important issue in my mind as it does effect everything and makes power over the people even more remote, out of touch and unaccountable.

However, a lot of us now believe that saying we are anti EU isn't enough. It's like having a big fast car, but with no wheels, no fuel, no steering wheel, indeed just a shell. Winning the race in a shell is highly unlikely.

Roger Gough · 10-08-2005, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BASILDON BOY

We need a local government policy unit.

While our MEPS are busy fighting the pen pushers and civil servants in the EU - we should be busy fighting those civil servants and pen pushers in the local town hall.

We need a unit offering 5 or 6 local government policy ideas and then help and guidence on campaigning to take the local town hall!

Has anybody asked where all our council tax money goes?

Christ, I sound like an NEC stooge, but they recognised this at their last meeting, it's posted on the web site. At least they've acknowledged it.
It would take a member with a line to NEC decisions to come on the forum and dish out stuff like this thereby, hopefully, keeping morale high and members informed. :roll:

View Poll Results: What should UKIP be?
1. A pressure group	2	5.71%
2. A pressure party	2	5.71%
3. A full political party	31	88.57%
Voters: 35. You may not vote on this poll

09-08-2005, 02:35 PM	#23 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 31,102 Party: Libertarian Party	There was me thinking the leadership were doing sod all! Get out and fight elections, brilliant in it's simplicity. Sadly, I think a lot of branches are now skint, since they wasted a lot of their funds on an election address, that was quite simply the worst one I have seen put out by any party, ever. The fact that a lot of branches have lost the will to live and haven't been boosted in anyway by seeing any real initiatives on a national level, means the amount of door knocking won't quite be up to the other parties efforts. Some branches are crying out for some real guidance on how to run a local campaign. Those that come here might have some ideas to go on, but what about the rest who don't? Even the one simple tool of having a reasonable website could boost a lot of people, but then that would be spoon feeding them wouldn't it. Of course the local branches should do all they can. There are probably good branches, great branches and a few crummy branches up and down the country too. The good branches are not the problem, the average and poor ones are and need all the help they can get. UKIP needs to get credibility before it can start attracting enough members and funds to fight the kind of campaign you talk about. Until the basics are put right, such as the party regularly releasing policies and reaction to how this country is being raped, even if the website is the only way of getting it out; how can you expect any but the best branches to do anything? Fighting gorilla warfare tactics where each little local unit does everything works to a point, but if you want real success you have to be more organised, polished and professional. No more Dads army, more SAS please! __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

09-08-2005, 07:44 PM	#26 (permalink)
steve allison Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 125	www.high-tax-hartlepool.co.uk Anyone looking for a good, crusading local website try www.high-tax-hartlepool.co.uk Only been running properly since 1st August

10-08-2005, 11:38 AM	#29 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 31,102 Party: Libertarian Party	That's the thing Richard. Some people actualy started joining because of other reasons. The Libertarian, anti-police state position of UKIP was a big draw to some of us. The EU is the single most important issue in my mind as it does effect everything and makes power over the people even more remote, out of touch and unaccountable. However, a lot of us now believe that saying we are anti EU isn't enough. It's like having a big fast car, but with no wheels, no fuel, no steering wheel, indeed just a shell. Winning the race in a shell is highly unlikely. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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09-08-2005, 08:31 AM	#21 (permalink)
Lawrie Boxall Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Sandhurst Posts: 1,015	It has to come from the top imo. Only the UKIP leadership has it in their power to create the right environment to allow UKIP candidates to make a breakthrough. They must first acknowledge that all the important battles need to be won in the UK not in Brussels and then change the party's focus. Another pre-requisite is to address the broad issues of UK politics and concentrate the party's efforts but most importantly their own on UK campaigns. That's why Gerrard Batten's statement last week was welcome even though it left something to be desired. That does not matter and UKIP spokesmen should not be afraid of making mistakes. Mistakes are to be avoided but some are inevitable and it is far more important to address the issues publicly than remain silent. And now is the time, years out from a general election, for the party to air its views and test them in public. Of course UKIP members have to keep fighting local elections on local issues, but there will be endless defeats unless UKIP makes itself credible as a party of government. If I was a UKIP member I would have to say to the party leaders, which includes the whole of the NEC and all the MEPs, either produce or get off the pot. They have been occupying the seat for far too long without much result.

09-08-2005, 02:02 PM	#22 (permalink)
steve allison Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 125	I have to disagree with you Lawrie about this one. Local elections are not about "the leadership" they are about local people, you and I, getting off our backsides and doing something. The membership of UKIP seems to spend an awful lot of time complaining the Leadership are not doing anything! Why isn't UKIP more visible? Why don't the leadership do something? Well "the leadership" are saying loud and clear to anyone who will listen that UKIP needs to stand candidates in local elections and that the campaigns need to start now. The National Leadership cannot run every single local election campaign, which is down to individual candidates and branches. Rather than saying "why isn't the leadership doing something" we should be saying in our own areas UKIP is being made more visible by MY election campaign. The leadership have given the lead by encouraging people to stand, it is up to us, as the membership to get out there and do it. Are you attending Council meetings and local neighbourhood forums? Go along, submit questions to local councillors, do you research first.....ask you local councillor something like "Since you were elected in 2XXX the level of graffiti in the ward has almost doubled, what have you done to address this", then what ever answer they give you can reply "Well, you've been our councillor for X years and don't seem to have achieved anything, maybe it's time for a change" The local papers will cover it if you tip them off...... The typical ward has 2,500 homes, every single one should have already had a personal letter from their candidate (or UKIP Ward Co-ordinator as they should be referred to until April 2006), and I mean personal, get a copy of the electoral register and mail merge a file, deliver them by hand and knock on doors as you do it: Here is a quick Local Election Programme September, introductory letter too all voters Knock on doors Attend local Events Issue press releases write letters to local papers October, Knock on doors Attend local Events Issue press releases write letters to local papers November, newsletter too all homes Knock on doors Attend local Events Issue press releases write letters to local papers December, personalised Christmas card to all voters Knock on doors Attend local Events Issue press releases write letters to local papers January, Knock on doors Attend local Events Issue press releases write letters to local papers February, newsletter to all homes Knock on doors Attend local Events Issue press releases write letters to local papers March, Knock on doors Attend local Events Issue press releases write letters to local papers April, Election Address to all homes Knock on doors Attend local Events Issue press releases write letters to local papers April, personalised letter to all postal voters delivered by hand on day before ballot papers come out. Knock on doors Attend local Events Issue press releases write letters to local papers Eve of poll , don't forget to vote leaflet. Only the Election address, postal voter letter and eve of poll leaflet actually count towards your election expenses. The rest are before the controlled period starts and so can be discounted. So don't complain about the "Leadership" doing nothing, just get out there and do it yourself.......

09-08-2005, 03:52 PM	#24 (permalink)
Richard Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Gloucester Posts: 168	A Full Political Party My reasons are quite simple, there are only two ways in which the UK will leave the EU. Either by the EU collapsing or the ballot box. Politicians are not scared of pressure groups, they pose little threat to them. They only take note if they will loose a seat or gain a seat. UKIP may never be in government but politicains will take note of us if we are a threat. Joe Bloggs down the road is not interested in the 'EU'. They are interested in health, taxes, crime, police, energy, rubbish, graffiti, transport, pensions etc. The way UKIP sells it is how the EU interferes in these areas and our powerlessness to do anything about it. People need to see us as a strong contender, which includes strong leadership. We need to build up local support in councils so people vote for us in a general election. We can do it but we need the energy, enthusiasm, leadership, resourses etc. Time to do something about it methinks

09-08-2005, 05:25 PM	#25 (permalink)
BASILDON BOY Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: N'Djamena, Chad Posts: 1,835	We need a local government policy unit. While our MEPS are busy fighting the pen pushers and civil servants in the EU - we should be busy fighting those civil servants and pen pushers in the local town hall. We need a unit offering 5 or 6 local government policy ideas and then help and guidence on campaigning to take the local town hall! Has anybody asked where all our council tax money goes?