Green-UKIP

Alex McKee · 01-07-2005, 12:14 PM

Well that's different again. NEW as in policy ideas, but if that's wasn't clear then I apologise and it will be edited.

SilverFalcon · 01-07-2005, 12:19 PM

God some people can bicker! Everyone is a little bit right so pool what's clever and junk what's unworkable in the short term for policy usage and concentrate on what's workable in the long term on a strategy of getting INTO phpbb_power in the first instance or getting big enough to be heard as a viable green opposition.

The Greens, as such, are an overtly lefty bunch. They aren't fluffy bunny at all, in fact they harbour some psychos most people would rather not have to lunch. They are also totally obsessed with the human angle and with the "back to nature" angle where they would have us all wearing hemp shirts and moving silently down great corridors of towering scary hemp plants that will loom over everyone as horribly as will those windmills. Incidentally, South Africa has adopted a nuclear angle too now as until its evolutionary step is effected (soon maybe) this is better than oil. Nuclear is anathema to the Greens. It hides fascist world dominating terrors for them. I don't like nuclear either as it has waste disposal problems and Chernobel and Three Mile Island potential, but it is a step between fusion and fission (or the other way round, I am not a science person) and so is like the fossil fuel age in that it is a stop gap between technologies.

Growing the crops that are harmonious with climate and environment is a good way to prevent large scale usage of fertilizers and insecticides. These are also a big problem for African farmers who spend most of their cash on growing the crops and then can't sell them because of international trade issues and no more money to grow more crops. Vicious feedback circle that impoverishes them. The South African beef and corn farmers have started to turn many farms over to game as this requires less attention, and is far more ecological. It also has a lucrative shooting market in season. Like now. Everyone is polishing his gun to go get himself a "bokkie". They make "biltong" out of the shoot and men get to bond with other men and go hunting. It's no use saying that's repulsive as people line up from overseas to get a chance to do it and the game is thriving because it's managed and the landscape is returning to large areas of wild bush. Rainfall was a factor in starting the new move. It has been a problem wordwide where farmers grow stuff that isn't indigenous or that requires too much artifical care and attention. The result is that South Africa is leading the world in the management of wildlife areas. Ours are now so huge that one runs all the way from the South African side bordering Mozambique INTO phpbb_an adjoining one in that country, where previously war had ravaged every single creature from the bush. Now they hope to replenish stocks and there is a whole game moving and reallocating affair in progress.

Britian has a problem with sheep. They are devouring the natural heather and gorse. In Norway they have almost made the wolf extinct. Farmers don't need to farm so many and don't some get subsidised just to farm them even when this is not required? Why not turn these sheep ravaged areas INTO phpbb_reserves? Or grow or keep something that is more native to the environment. Why grow more food than you need? Why have more people than you need for sustainable existence? Why continue to pursue socialist ends? All these issues can be worked INTO phpbb_sane green policies that make sense and that help people to utilize the land more effectively.

Alex, keep trucking. Life is full of angry people. Fortunately they're not bad people, just frustrated and angry and used to snapping. Wear a political crash helmet and keep going.

John Carter · 01-07-2005, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverFalcon

The Greens, as such, are an overtly lefty bunch. They aren't fluffy bunny at all, in fact they harbour some psychos most people would rather not have to lunch. They are also totally obsessed with the human angle and with the "back to nature" angle

Absolutely. As such, anyone overly interested in green (small g) policy is unlikely to be interested in an anti-EU party. Green policy and lefty pro-EU policy goes hand in hand.

SilverFalcon · 01-07-2005, 02:03 PM

But not among nationalists who follow the pagan and secular belief systems. They are all anti-EU and extremely pro-Green, which means something. What does it mean? Ah. Support for environmental issues. For this group nature is connected to the country and blood is connected to soil, not necessarly in a nazi interpretation as there are few real nazis. The new right is green as grass and centred in a Europe of sovereign nation states. They are probably much bigger than the Greens and their socio-political universe is much wider. This possibly means some people should give up certain antagonisms and join a large patriotic, environmentally aware group who want their independence from the EU. If this is taken alone, without even mentioning the smaller social issues, the group is vast, the potential power base scary as an opposition to the status quo which is shrinking despite its attempt to hijack Africa's problems to its own tarnished bandwagon.

Anthony Butcher · 01-07-2005, 02:23 PM

Once the policy/research groups get going they will have their own sections set aside, including a "green" section.

John Carter · 01-07-2005, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverFalcon

But not among nationalists who follow the pagan and secular belief systems. They are all anti-EU and extremely pro-Green

I have never met one of these people. Ever. I've met plenty of pagans and plenty of greenies. None of them are ever nationalist.

So who the heck are you talking about?

B.A.Ware · 01-07-2005, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

Quote:

SO far no-one except Hereward and Silver Falcon have actually put anything new to the debate, (thanks to B.A.Ware for the support though), please can we now get some new ideas on the ball?

Forgot that bit I guess. Dude, I won't say anything more in your thread.

B.A.Ware Wrote

Quote:

I also believe in micro generation, simply put every new house should have some form of power generation. I saw a marvellous one that you can purchase which is a tiny turbine which supplies enough power to run your central heating system.

Alex i dont know if you took my other posting seriously. I think micro generation it is a great idea, it will not solve the whole problem but it will help and is completely green. I probably havent explained it well so i will post some links
http://www.practicalhelp.org.uk/housing/news/

http://www.green-alliance.org.uk/pub...tionManifesto/

http://www.newbuilder.co.uk/news/New...ory.asp?ID=823

verypistol · 01-07-2005, 04:29 PM

to get to the thread.

How about construction policy.

No new builds (ie planning approval) unless the building has as much consumption reducing technology as possible. eg solar panels, built in recycle centre to sort household waste, use of sewage to create fertiliser(saw this in operation in Wales, but does need a lot land and time to ensure a neutral not smelly atmosphere) and removing VAT on renovation of buildings and encouraging use of old sites instead of greenfield building?

Transport- build a new railway specifically aimed at removing freight from the roads(a ten year plan min.)

Put a tax on tourism and accept that travel for fun is environmentally un friendly(ie road pricing based on distance, the further you travel the higher the price if not work related).

Take away the tax advantages for air travel, and make it what it should be a luxury and priced accordingly.

All difficult as they cost money and in some cases jobs. However the only real green is a reduction in consumption if that can be sold then all well and good :?

SilverFalcon · 01-07-2005, 05:57 PM

verypistol: Every one of your suggestions is workable and especially the air travel one. Far too many people travel for far too little reason. Computer seminars can be held instead. All this dragging "business" people through the ether for "meetings" is unncessary. The chem trails are blocking out the sunlight and causing other problems, as well as the problem of aircraft noise.

I am especially concerned about the selling of pesticides over the counter to ordinary gardeners. Lawn fertilizers penetrate the water table and mess up the ground water and also fertilizer gets INTO phpbb_the throats of birds who forage on lawns and results in painful ulceration of the throat. Many birds die horrible deaths from this and no one even knows. Organic gardening is big where I am. And the growing of more native species of food bearing plants (seed and berry types) rather than the sole cultivation of non-indigenous ornamentals means the birds have year round food supplies. This encourages wild species to stay and not be shoved out by human habitation and these birds contribute greatly to the whole balance of the ecosystem through the network of gardens through to the country.

Alex McKee · 01-07-2005, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony Butcher

Once the policy/research groups get going they will have their own sections set aside, including a "green" section.

Very good to know.

01-07-2005, 04:29 PM	#28 (permalink)
verypistol Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: yorkshire Posts: 42	to get to the thread. How about construction policy. No new builds (ie planning approval) unless the building has as much consumption reducing technology as possible. eg solar panels, built in recycle centre to sort household waste, use of sewage to create fertiliser(saw this in operation in Wales, but does need a lot land and time to ensure a neutral not smelly atmosphere) and removing VAT on renovation of buildings and encouraging use of old sites instead of greenfield building? Transport- build a new railway specifically aimed at removing freight from the roads(a ten year plan min.) Put a tax on tourism and accept that travel for fun is environmentally un friendly(ie road pricing based on distance, the further you travel the higher the price if not work related). Take away the tax advantages for air travel, and make it what it should be a luxury and priced accordingly. All difficult as they cost money and in some cases jobs. However the only real green is a reduction in consumption if that can be sold then all well and good :? __________________ googley bear

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

01-07-2005, 12:14 PM	#21 (permalink)
Alex McKee Moderator Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Gloucester Posts: 6,666	Well that's different again. NEW as in policy ideas, but if that's wasn't clear then I apologise and it will be edited.

01-07-2005, 12:19 PM	#22 (permalink)
SilverFalcon Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,054	God some people can bicker! Everyone is a little bit right so pool what's clever and junk what's unworkable in the short term for policy usage and concentrate on what's workable in the long term on a strategy of getting INTO phpbb_power in the first instance or getting big enough to be heard as a viable green opposition. The Greens, as such, are an overtly lefty bunch. They aren't fluffy bunny at all, in fact they harbour some psychos most people would rather not have to lunch. They are also totally obsessed with the human angle and with the "back to nature" angle where they would have us all wearing hemp shirts and moving silently down great corridors of towering scary hemp plants that will loom over everyone as horribly as will those windmills. Incidentally, South Africa has adopted a nuclear angle too now as until its evolutionary step is effected (soon maybe) this is better than oil. Nuclear is anathema to the Greens. It hides fascist world dominating terrors for them. I don't like nuclear either as it has waste disposal problems and Chernobel and Three Mile Island potential, but it is a step between fusion and fission (or the other way round, I am not a science person) and so is like the fossil fuel age in that it is a stop gap between technologies. Growing the crops that are harmonious with climate and environment is a good way to prevent large scale usage of fertilizers and insecticides. These are also a big problem for African farmers who spend most of their cash on growing the crops and then can't sell them because of international trade issues and no more money to grow more crops. Vicious feedback circle that impoverishes them. The South African beef and corn farmers have started to turn many farms over to game as this requires less attention, and is far more ecological. It also has a lucrative shooting market in season. Like now. Everyone is polishing his gun to go get himself a "bokkie". They make "biltong" out of the shoot and men get to bond with other men and go hunting. It's no use saying that's repulsive as people line up from overseas to get a chance to do it and the game is thriving because it's managed and the landscape is returning to large areas of wild bush. Rainfall was a factor in starting the new move. It has been a problem wordwide where farmers grow stuff that isn't indigenous or that requires too much artifical care and attention. The result is that South Africa is leading the world in the management of wildlife areas. Ours are now so huge that one runs all the way from the South African side bordering Mozambique INTO phpbb_an adjoining one in that country, where previously war had ravaged every single creature from the bush. Now they hope to replenish stocks and there is a whole game moving and reallocating affair in progress. Britian has a problem with sheep. They are devouring the natural heather and gorse. In Norway they have almost made the wolf extinct. Farmers don't need to farm so many and don't some get subsidised just to farm them even when this is not required? Why not turn these sheep ravaged areas INTO phpbb_reserves? Or grow or keep something that is more native to the environment. Why grow more food than you need? Why have more people than you need for sustainable existence? Why continue to pursue socialist ends? All these issues can be worked INTO phpbb_sane green policies that make sense and that help people to utilize the land more effectively. Alex, keep trucking. Life is full of angry people. Fortunately they're not bad people, just frustrated and angry and used to snapping. Wear a political crash helmet and keep going.

01-07-2005, 02:03 PM	#24 (permalink)
SilverFalcon Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,054	But not among nationalists who follow the pagan and secular belief systems. They are all anti-EU and extremely pro-Green, which means something. What does it mean? Ah. Support for environmental issues. For this group nature is connected to the country and blood is connected to soil, not necessarly in a nazi interpretation as there are few real nazis. The new right is green as grass and centred in a Europe of sovereign nation states. They are probably much bigger than the Greens and their socio-political universe is much wider. This possibly means some people should give up certain antagonisms and join a large patriotic, environmentally aware group who want their independence from the EU. If this is taken alone, without even mentioning the smaller social issues, the group is vast, the potential power base scary as an opposition to the status quo which is shrinking despite its attempt to hijack Africa's problems to its own tarnished bandwagon.

01-07-2005, 02:23 PM	#25 (permalink)
Anthony Butcher Administrator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Long Ashton, Bristol Posts: 10,192 Party: None	Once the policy/research groups get going they will have their own sections set aside, including a "green" section.

01-07-2005, 05:57 PM	#29 (permalink)
SilverFalcon Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,054	verypistol: Every one of your suggestions is workable and especially the air travel one. Far too many people travel for far too little reason. Computer seminars can be held instead. All this dragging "business" people through the ether for "meetings" is unncessary. The chem trails are blocking out the sunlight and causing other problems, as well as the problem of aircraft noise. I am especially concerned about the selling of pesticides over the counter to ordinary gardeners. Lawn fertilizers penetrate the water table and mess up the ground water and also fertilizer gets INTO phpbb_the throats of birds who forage on lawns and results in painful ulceration of the throat. Many birds die horrible deaths from this and no one even knows. Organic gardening is big where I am. And the growing of more native species of food bearing plants (seed and berry types) rather than the sole cultivation of non-indigenous ornamentals means the birds have year round food supplies. This encourages wild species to stay and not be shoved out by human habitation and these birds contribute greatly to the whole balance of the ecosystem through the network of gardens through to the country.