Green-UKIP

Alex McKee · 01-07-2005, 11:21 AM

Quote:

If anything I think we need to put a huge positive spin on our environmental policy. Encourage the use of good vehicles, rather than punnish the use of bad vehicles. E.G. Less tax on dual fuel vehicles, no VAT on MOT's of such vehicles.

Incidentally, if you had read my inital post properly this is what I am saying as well, I said a tax-break on less-pollutant vehicles, but we shouldn't penalise those who have more pollutant vehicles, because sometimes they are vintage, sometimes they are the vehicles of poorer people and etc.

mkpdavies · 01-07-2005, 11:23 AM

I that's why I responded with a suggested line of attack. IE encourage the positive not attack the negative, to which you jumped sone my throat telling me I was being negative.

If you want a full discussion on how UKIP should approach Green policy, then fine I'll get involved. If you want to preach how you think it should be done and are not interested in what I have to say, just say so and I'll step out now.

Alex McKee · 01-07-2005, 11:25 AM

Matt, I only said you have not had much positive to say, and also I included John in that.

How on earth is that me "jumping at your throat"?

Alex McKee · 01-07-2005, 11:27 AM

And this thread was not started with the aim of discussing how UKIP should approach Green policy, as stated it was started with the intention of developing some Green policies.

mkpdavies · 01-07-2005, 11:34 AM

If you can't see that saying I have added nothing positive and added nothing to the debate, isn't just a little bit offensive, then I guess I will have a hard time convincing you otherwise.

I always look to build policy ideas with a set of principles from the start, thus making sure conflicts don't happen latter.

If you want a brainstorm of green issues without any constraints, then I'll step out and leave you to it. No big deal, I just have a deep suspision of the whole Green movement and would rather look at it from a position of practicality, taking human nature INTO phpbb_account first and foremost.

John Carter · 01-07-2005, 11:48 AM

As a swift aside, I was having a discussion earlier in the week with a friend about the psychological effects of small vs large cars. He'd had a visit to the US Ford web site and was more than a little unhappy that we're stuck with girlie cars like the Fiesta and Ka while the yanks get Mustangs and F150s for not much more money (go check out Ford.com).

The upshot of the conversation was that large cars encourage a male feel to society and that small cars encourage a feminine feel to society. This feminine feel extends to (perhaps too much) concern for the environment and the feeling of needing to do something about it through joining up with other nearby countries and having a common environmental policy.

Effectively, the masculine aspect of society is the one which says "we do it alone" while the feminine one is that of "we need to participate with others". Witness the way the US (best selling car: F150) handles international co-operation compared with us (best selling car: Focus).

In short, if we'd all been driving large V8-engined cars for the last 30 years we wouldn't be in the EU right now.

Yes. It was a strange conversation, for sure.

Alex McKee · 01-07-2005, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Yes. It was a strange conversation, for sure.

Indeed!

Paul Birch · 01-07-2005, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Carter

In short, if we'd all been driving large V8-engined cars for the last 30 years we wouldn't be in the EU right now.

Hhm. Interesting notion. I wonder if UKIP supporters drive bigger cars than average? Let's see. I have a 2 litre Peugeot 405 estate, before that a Renault Savanna 7-seat estate. So far so good. Then before that a Metro City ... Oh well, never mind.

Ah. Idea. Here's a nice environmentally friendly policy we could try: "A UKIP government will give every British subject the choice of a free Range Rover or traditional Land Rover". :shock:

Alex McKee · 01-07-2005, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

If you can't see that saying I have added nothing positive and added nothing to the debate, isn't just a little bit offensive, then I guess I will have a hard time convincing you otherwise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by I

Thanks to those who have been constructive but John and Matt, no offence but you've not had much positive to say.

Note the difference. I ask you not to take offence - which clearly you have - and secondly I write "not had much positive to say"
Again note the difference.

You accuse me of saying "added nothing positive and nothing to the debate". That's a whole lot different to "not had much positive to say".

Anyway this is pathetic. I wish I hadn't bothered to post the thread at all.

mkpdavies · 01-07-2005, 12:05 PM

Quote:

SO far no-one except Hereward and Silver Falcon have actually put anything new to the debate, (thanks to B.A.Ware for the support though), please can we now get some new ideas on the ball?

Forgot that bit I guess. Dude, I won't say anything more in your thread.

01-07-2005, 11:23 AM	#12 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 31,102 Party: Libertarian Party	I that's why I responded with a suggested line of attack. IE encourage the positive not attack the negative, to which you jumped sone my throat telling me I was being negative. If you want a full discussion on how UKIP should approach Green policy, then fine I'll get involved. If you want to preach how you think it should be done and are not interested in what I have to say, just say so and I'll step out now. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

01-07-2005, 11:34 AM	#15 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 31,102 Party: Libertarian Party	If you can't see that saying I have added nothing positive and added nothing to the debate, isn't just a little bit offensive, then I guess I will have a hard time convincing you otherwise. I always look to build policy ideas with a set of principles from the start, thus making sure conflicts don't happen latter. If you want a brainstorm of green issues without any constraints, then I'll step out and leave you to it. No big deal, I just have a deep suspision of the whole Green movement and would rather look at it from a position of practicality, taking human nature INTO phpbb_account first and foremost. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

01-07-2005, 11:48 AM	#16 (permalink)
John Carter Uber Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: On Sabbatical Posts: 5,110	As a swift aside, I was having a discussion earlier in the week with a friend about the psychological effects of small vs large cars. He'd had a visit to the US Ford web site and was more than a little unhappy that we're stuck with girlie cars like the Fiesta and Ka while the yanks get Mustangs and F150s for not much more money (go check out Ford.com). The upshot of the conversation was that large cars encourage a male feel to society and that small cars encourage a feminine feel to society. This feminine feel extends to (perhaps too much) concern for the environment and the feeling of needing to do something about it through joining up with other nearby countries and having a common environmental policy. Effectively, the masculine aspect of society is the one which says "we do it alone" while the feminine one is that of "we need to participate with others". Witness the way the US (best selling car: F150) handles international co-operation compared with us (best selling car: Focus). In short, if we'd all been driving large V8-engined cars for the last 30 years we wouldn't be in the EU right now. Yes. It was a strange conversation, for sure. __________________ There are three kinds of people in this world: Libertarians, fascists, and those who haven't been paying attention.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

01-07-2005, 11:25 AM	#13 (permalink)
Alex McKee Moderator Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Gloucester Posts: 6,666	Matt, I only said you have not had much positive to say, and also I included John in that. How on earth is that me "jumping at your throat"?

01-07-2005, 11:27 AM	#14 (permalink)
Alex McKee Moderator Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Gloucester Posts: 6,666	And this thread was not started with the aim of discussing how UKIP should approach Green policy, as stated it was started with the intention of developing some Green policies.